it depends who it is, i always keep my emotions to myself, don't show them if i wanna cry or whatever when i think i should. but i have to admit i don't often think about the family unless is a young person i think about the parents.

People have to die so that there can be room for the people being born. It's a cliche, but it's the natural way. The death of a 101 year old woman can by no stretch of the imagination be called a tragedy. I'm sure the members of her immediate family will be a little sad and miss the deceased, but it's hardly unexpected.

I feel far more sorry for people when they lose someone close in sudden circumstances, especially someone young losing a parent or a parent losing a young child. My father died a couple of years ago aged 50, it was very sad, but he was very ill and in many ways it was a release for someone who had been as brave as you could expect someone to be. When it finally happened it was not a surprise and it was a comfort that he had lived to see his children all grown up.

I've always thought 'What's the big deal?' when it comes to death...

I can see the tragedy of such mass loss of life as September 11th, which was just done to prove a point, but death in general has no affect on me, and i often wonder why people make such a big deal out of it.

We live. We Die. So what?

To be honest Death scares me, I don't believe in after lives or anything like that so when I think of death I think of all the things I will miss the people I will miss, being able to look in my childrens eyes being here for them having them close to me. Sorry but I can't think "we live we die so what?" to me the so what is I don't want to die I have to much in life to live for.

---

by Maffrew
I've always thought 'What's the big deal?' when it comes to death...

I can see the tragedy of such mass loss of life as September 11th, which was just done to prove a point, but death in general has no affect on me, and i often wonder why people make such a big deal out of it.

We live. We Die. So what?

---

Er Maff, Just picking at straws here, but by the contents of your post I'm taking a wild guess that you have never lost anyone that was particularly close to you. The reason that people make such a big deal out of it is because it is quite often a bid deal! I'm sure death WOULD have an effect on you if someone extremly close to you died suddenly.

Call me naive if you want, but i don't think it would have the impact you seem to think it would. I know myself better than you do.

---

by Maffrew
I know myself better than you do.

---

Are you really sure? We can surprise even ourselves sometimes with how we react to things when we thought we'd always react differently.

I would never endorse a 'We live, we die, so what' philosophy. We get but one life and should make the most of it.

But life and death are inherently connected. Our value in the time we get is derived from the knowledge that it is finite.

Death is the nature of living things and not to be feared or mourned in the normal course of events.

It is the postscript to our lives and allows that which we achieved, those that we touched, things that we changed to be recognised in their entirety.

From Sandman by Neil Gaiman:

'Death is before me today,
Like the recovery of a sick man,
Like going forth into a garden after sickness.

Death is before me today,
Like the odor of myrhh
Like sitting under a sail in a good wind.

Death is before me today,
Like the course of a stream
Like the return of a man from the war-galley to his house.

Death is before me today,
Like the home that a man longs to see
After years spent as a captive.'

---

by Incandenza
I would never endorse a 'We live, we die, so what' philosophy. We get but one life and should make the most of it.

---

Okay, maybe i worded that wrong. In hindsight it reads rather flippantly and is reductionist. I didn't mean 'what's the point of life and death' so to speak, i meant that we live, then we die, but death is not to be feared or mourned, it just a natural progression.

There is no right or wrong in the way each of us deals with death, be it the death of someone we don't personally know, a relative, a friend, a child or a baby.

It affects people differently. It *is* a part of life and it is inevitable. Not always when we expect it, and we grieve in different ways.

No-one should ever be told how they are supposed to deal with death. For some people it has no meaning, for others it can take a great deal of mourning to move on, as many of us have experienced.

Living in fear of death does no good. We wouldn't be able to function normally if we did, but some people do fear death. It's human nature, however irrational. We have lives and loves and don't want that to end.
Some fear their own death, some fear that of someone they care about (in my case, I am fearful my father-in-law may not recover from his stroke) but we can't live our lives waiting for or expecting it to happen.

Whilst fearing death, we may miss out on life.

---

by Maffrew
(quotes)

death is not to be feared or mourned, it just a natural progression.

---

Not always. Death is a natural progression when you are 101 and is something that you expect to happen to your grandparents. However when things happen out of synch it is not natural - it's not natural for a child to die before its parents for example and as such is extraordinarily difficult to cope with.

It is often said that most people don't really understand death until their parents die and for many people this is the first death they really experience. Those it happens to earlier are unlucky. I lost my best friend when I was 18 - and it really changes your outlook on life & death. Its not a good thing, its just a fact. You may think you know yourself - but no one knows how they will react to the death of someone really close - not even if you've already experienced it.

(Edited by Suze 01/04/2002 23:20)

---

by Suze
no one knows how they will react to the death of someone really close - not even if you've already experienced it.

---

I totally agree. Last year I had a very bad year. I lost 4 members of my family in quick succession, one very very very close to me. Saying death should not be feared or mourned seems *to me* fundamentally wrong. What I mean to say is that if I could have chosen not to have been affected by this, believe me I would have done. It's a reaction that you don't have a lot of control over.

Maff, I hope you are fortunate enough to go through life with the same opinion, it will make some very hard times alot easier.

---

by Maffrew
(quotes)

Okay, maybe i worded that wrong. In hindsight it reads rather flippantly and is reductionist. I didn't mean 'what's the point of life and death' so to speak, i meant that we live, then we die, but death is not to be feared or mourned, it just a natural progression.

---

I agree with Suze, It isn't always a natural progression, to lose a child whose life has only just began is far from a natural progression.To lose a father to someone drunk behind the wheel of a car is not a natural progression.
Maff all I can say to you is what Desire has said I hope you are fortunate to go through life with the same opinon.


(Edited by Sweet-Sange 02/04/2002 09:50)

Actually, point of information - for a child to die before a parent is entirely natural. Statistically, it was pretty much the norm until fairly recently - maybe the last 2 centuries or so. I would suggest perhaps that the very fact that we have to deal with death far less frequently means we have more emotion to invest in each death, and are less prepared for it...

Now, personally, I don't want to be dead, because I enjoy the sensations and ideas available to me through the status of being alive, and have no guarantee I will be able to continue these post mortem. I don't want peopel I care about to be dead, because I miss being able to enjoy their company, and feel bad that they are probably also being deprived of the opportunity to do things they previously enjoyed.

Then again, am aware that, if I am right and death is oblivion, then ipso facto I am not going to miss being alive, or not enjoy being dead, because I there won't be a me to do either. And, unless we all agree n ot to breed, we have to die. Besides, the molecules that make up my body and brain won't be obliterated - they will just change, and become a part of a greater system. Perhaps consciousness is a necessary sacrifice, and our prioritising of the sense of self a blind alley or vanity.

So, it makes perfect sense to mourn. It makes perfect sense to admit that, in the night (when men cry, cheers Martin), timor mortis conturbat me, and it makes perfect sense to avoid dying for as long as it is profitable to do so. But, since you and everybody you love are going to die, it might be best to get a handle on it that doesn't let it mess up your life too much.

Very nicely put, Tannhauser