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Mummy, where do Stormtroopers come from?
Prompted by some of the discussion in the Star Wars Ep. 2 thread, I thought we should chat about the origins of the Empire's white clad shock troops. So come on folks, post your views and state your sources.
There are sources that states Stormtroopers are clones and that they aren't. Some comics, especiallythe early ones state that they were clones, later ones state that they were human and have had human stormtroopers as the characters in the story.
One book I have at hand "Rules of Engagement" published in 97 before the sequels states...
"The origin of the Stormtrooper legions is unknown, they were simply announced early in the Empire's history in a regular information broadcast, and posted in key facilities. Their numbers grew as time went onandtheir sphere of operation expanded rapidly. Their training facilities are unknown. Their recruitment source is unknown. Speculation runs wild, One of the commomest runours is that stormtroopers are clones, grown in secret facilities and imprinted with all the military training they need. Other ruomours suggest that they are recruited and trained on hidden worlds. Still others claim that the stormtroopers are recruited throught the general population, but channeled through a secret training program and imprinted with mindwipe sessions. All, some or several of these may be true. The Stormtroopers have no comment"
Another I have from 1989 entitled "The Imperial Sourcebook" states "Where the men who wear the armour of the stormtroopers are recruited from is unknown"
Well just becasue they're clones doesn't mean they can't have different voices. As a clone thier genetic material is the same as that of their template, however the development of the embryo and growth into adulthood yields differences, It's just the same as the way identical twins develop.
by Milky
Okay I'll try to explain it more clearly.
In Star Wars Ep 4: A New Hope and the other original trilogy movies the stormtroopers are humans(some conscripted from conquered worlds and some who volunteered for military service) and not clones. One way to tell this is in Star Wars Episode 4 when you hear stormtroopers speaking..they all have different voices meaning different people.
Ep 2 - Clones Good
Ep 3 - Some Clones Good, Some Clones Bad
Ep 4-6 - No Clones..only Stormtroopers who can't shoot very well
There are sources that states Stormtroopers are clones and that they aren't. Some comics, especiallythe early ones state that they were clones, later ones state that they were human and have had human stormtroopers as the characters in the story.
One book I have at hand "Rules of Engagement" published in 97 before the sequels states...
"The origin of the Stormtrooper legions is unknown, they were simply announced early in the Empire's history in a regular information broadcast, and posted in key facilities. Their numbers grew as time went onandtheir sphere of operation expanded rapidly. Their training facilities are unknown. Their recruitment source is unknown. Speculation runs wild, One of the commomest runours is that stormtroopers are clones, grown in secret facilities and imprinted with all the military training they need. Other ruomours suggest that they are recruited and trained on hidden worlds. Still others claim that the stormtroopers are recruited throught the general population, but channeled through a secret training program and imprinted with mindwipe sessions. All, some or several of these may be true. The Stormtroopers have no comment"
Another I have from 1989 entitled "The Imperial Sourcebook" states "Where the men who wear the armour of the stormtroopers are recruited from is unknown"
20 Replies and 6320 Views in Total. [ 1 2 ]
Well, in the expanded universe, the stormtroopers are clearly formed from conscripted or recruited Imperial citizens, as there's a problem with cloning. I'd guess in Attack of the Clowns that isn't the case, although I haven't seen it yet; going on Saturday.
In Children of the Jedi, there's an ageing ex-Stormtrooper who was plainly recruited from a farming world, and in the Heir to the Empire trilogy - as near as we'll ever get now to Eps 7, 8 and 9, and probably the best Star Wars novels there are - the 'weirdness' of Grand Admiral Thrawn's clone troopers is noted to set them apart from regular stormtroopers.
Then again, Lucas has stated that he doesn't give a fig for the expanded universe in his work.For my money this is because he doesn't want to face the fact that Timothy Zahn wrote Star Wars that was about eight bijillion times better than anything he ever turned out.
Back to the point, surely the STs can't be clones, because if you were going to clone an army, you'd clone someone who could shoot straight. Also, it's got to be logistically easier to recruit, unless you really need the 'instant army'. Moreover, clones would tend to display a uniformity of action which would make a cloned army predictable in battle.
Let's face it; the only reason this comes up is that if the STs are clones, it's easier to write-off their mass slaughter by the putative heroes. It cements their be-helmeted role as faceless servants of the evil Empire, rather than as 'real people' who just made a bad choice. If they have families and friends; lives and sweethearts, it's all a little Austin Powers for comfort in these enlightened times.
Also, the Fargo-esque ST in Troops refers to going down to the Imperial recruitment centre to sign up. Although Troops - sadly - can not be considered in any way canon.
(Edited by The Prophet 24/05/2002 14:32)
In Children of the Jedi, there's an ageing ex-Stormtrooper who was plainly recruited from a farming world, and in the Heir to the Empire trilogy - as near as we'll ever get now to Eps 7, 8 and 9, and probably the best Star Wars novels there are - the 'weirdness' of Grand Admiral Thrawn's clone troopers is noted to set them apart from regular stormtroopers.
Then again, Lucas has stated that he doesn't give a fig for the expanded universe in his work.For my money this is because he doesn't want to face the fact that Timothy Zahn wrote Star Wars that was about eight bijillion times better than anything he ever turned out.
Back to the point, surely the STs can't be clones, because if you were going to clone an army, you'd clone someone who could shoot straight. Also, it's got to be logistically easier to recruit, unless you really need the 'instant army'. Moreover, clones would tend to display a uniformity of action which would make a cloned army predictable in battle.
Let's face it; the only reason this comes up is that if the STs are clones, it's easier to write-off their mass slaughter by the putative heroes. It cements their be-helmeted role as faceless servants of the evil Empire, rather than as 'real people' who just made a bad choice. If they have families and friends; lives and sweethearts, it's all a little Austin Powers for comfort in these enlightened times.
Also, the Fargo-esque ST in Troops refers to going down to the Imperial recruitment centre to sign up. Although Troops - sadly - can not be considered in any way canon.
(Edited by The Prophet 24/05/2002 14:32)
Posted: 14:30 May 24 2002 
In the Star Wars novels, based in the expanded universe, Stormtroopers are recruited or conscripted from worlds inside the Empire and then put through a selection program, and if they get through that, trained at one of the Empire's academies, the best being the Imperial Academy on the planet Carida.
Lucas can obviously go several ways with the story... he can either just say all the stormtroopers are clones or he could say that the clones became unstable and so were replaced with humans from the Empire's worlds.
Personally, i think he'll go with the story that they are all clones, because, as Prophet said, they are then just mindless zombies and it's okay for the good guys to chop them up. The audience can rally against the stormtroopers, because they aren't people, they are fighting machines. In a way the clone troopers *are* droids, they are just organic ones.
Lucas can obviously go several ways with the story... he can either just say all the stormtroopers are clones or he could say that the clones became unstable and so were replaced with humans from the Empire's worlds.
Personally, i think he'll go with the story that they are all clones, because, as Prophet said, they are then just mindless zombies and it's okay for the good guys to chop them up. The audience can rally against the stormtroopers, because they aren't people, they are fighting machines. In a way the clone troopers *are* droids, they are just organic ones.
Posted: 19:35 May 24 2002
I reckon its like the navy conscripting was a few hundred years ago.
Your average guy goes down to the local cantina for a drink when leaving he gets whacked over the head next thing you know hes part of the imperial army on some dustball of a planet and a million parsecs from home
Your average guy goes down to the local cantina for a drink when leaving he gets whacked over the head next thing you know hes part of the imperial army on some dustball of a planet and a million parsecs from home
Posted: 22:49 May 25 2002 While I realise that there's a degree of facetiousness here, I feel a couple of points deserve mention.
by JtB
I reckon its like the navy conscripting was a few hundred years ago.
Your average guy goes down to the local cantina for a drink when leaving he gets whacked over the head next thing you know hes part of the imperial army on some dustball of a planet and a million parsecs from home
First, the fact that the Stormtroopers - all evidence to the contrary aside - are an elite force of highly trained soldiers, not a bunch of schmucks who just need to pull on a rope.
Second, Nelson's Navy was largely composed of volunteers, since it was a great way to make flipping great scads of cash. The pay wasn't great, but anything you captured was a prize. The captain would have an agent, who'd sell the prize and its contents, and the proceeds were divvied up between the crew. It broke down to something like a quarter to the Captain, an eighth between the senior officers, an eighth between the midshipmen and an eighth between the crew and marines, which I realise comes up an eighth short, but I'm not an eighteenth century prize agent, okay?
The press gangs would usually just round up the men who were drunk when it was time to sail. It's not like you'd _want_ unwilling, resentful, possibly drunken recruits on an eighteenth/nineteenth century man-of-war anyway, taking up space and drinking your water, while not being able to climb a rope, splice a mainbrace or buckle a swash to save their lives.
Same thing has to go double when any useless biomass is also absorbing valuable oxygen.
I figure they get the STs with a poster campaign: The Empire Needs YOU. You'd have Vader on the poster, making like Lord Kitchener, but instead of pointing, he'd be passing his hand across, Jedi mind trick style, and when people read it they'd go: "The Empire needs ME".
Posted: 10:45 May 26 2002
In some of the books there are those very campaign posters.
Although I've only seen ones that feature things like Star Destroyers and stormtroopers, never the Dark Lord of the Sith himself.
Whether there are any spots in the Stormtrooper regiments that are ever filled in this manner or if the folks end up scrubbing the head aboard the Executor, is again, something I've never seen substantiated
(Edited by MonSTeR 26/05/2002 11:44)
Although I've only seen ones that feature things like Star Destroyers and stormtroopers, never the Dark Lord of the Sith himself.
Whether there are any spots in the Stormtrooper regiments that are ever filled in this manner or if the folks end up scrubbing the head aboard the Executor, is again, something I've never seen substantiated
(Edited by MonSTeR 26/05/2002 11:44)
Posted: 11:40 May 26 2002 IT was all a joke so there was no need to pull it all apart
by The Prophet
(quotes)
While I realise that there's a degree of facetiousness here, I feel a couple of points deserve mention.
Posted: 12:57 May 26 2002 I know; but I felt it did raise a couple of valid points. Many a true word and all that.
by JtB
(quotes)
IT was all a joke so there was no need to pull it all apart
Posted: 13:05 May 26 2002
Okay one peice of novelisation that details the recruitment of a Stortrooper is the story called 'When the Desert Wind turns: The Stormtroopers Tale' which is in a book called "Tales From The Mos Eisley Cantina".
Basically the story goes that a man named Davin Felth joins the Imperial Army. After uncoverring a flaw in one of the Imperial weapons he is transferred to the company of Stormtroopers who are then posted to Tatooine to find Artoo & Threepio during Star Wars: A New Hope. Davin is the trooper who says the line "Look sir...droids".
Thats just one example of a human stormtrooper who wasn't a clone. Another would be Sixtus from "Rogue Squadron:The Bacta War".
But as Maff said these examples all come from the Expanded Universe books which Lucas is free to disregard as he wants..however the EU books are all sanctioned by Luxcasfilm and the storys in the EU have not been totally ruined by the two prequels yet...if Lucas filled the prequels with things that made the EU books have massive continuity errors then they would become pretty worthless afterall so EU books can generally be classed as canon.
Basically the story goes that a man named Davin Felth joins the Imperial Army. After uncoverring a flaw in one of the Imperial weapons he is transferred to the company of Stormtroopers who are then posted to Tatooine to find Artoo & Threepio during Star Wars: A New Hope. Davin is the trooper who says the line "Look sir...droids".
Thats just one example of a human stormtrooper who wasn't a clone. Another would be Sixtus from "Rogue Squadron:The Bacta War".
But as Maff said these examples all come from the Expanded Universe books which Lucas is free to disregard as he wants..however the EU books are all sanctioned by Luxcasfilm and the storys in the EU have not been totally ruined by the two prequels yet...if Lucas filled the prequels with things that made the EU books have massive continuity errors then they would become pretty worthless afterall so EU books can generally be classed as canon.
Posted: 18:44 May 26 2002
If the stormtroopers of Episode 4 were clones, a shory ST would have stood out like a sore Bantha, no?
Posted: 12:26 May 31 2002 Well there was the line "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper" wasn't there? that must indicate a certain degree of uniformity in the ranks of STs.
by Jango
If the stormtroopers of Episode 4 were clones, a shory ST would have stood out like a sore Bantha, no?
As someone who knows little about Starwars and just enjoyed the films then it does come across in ep2 that the Stormtroopers are indeed clones or some variation of
Posted: 23:51 Jun 01 2002 
Well it seems as if Stormtroopers ARE clones afterall!!!
In a "Homing Beacon" email from StarWars.com there was this little snippet...
In a "Homing Beacon" email from StarWars.com there was this little snippet...
Which I think implies that the Stormtroopers share Fett's DNA.. anyone else draw any different inference from this?
It appears that Fett genes and low headroom don't mix. In an homage to the classic Star Wars misstep, wherein a
stormtrooper bangs his head on a low-hanging door, Jango
Fett also takes a wallop on the noggin -- complete with
sound effect -- as he enters the Slave I after
tangling with Obi-Wan.
Posted: 21:34 Jun 05 2002
At best, it implies that the stormtrooper who banged his head is a clone, and it doesn't even really do that. Probably a joke reference.
Posted: 22:20 Jun 05 2002 
(i was christened luke, when asked if it was from the bible my parents corrected the questioner "no, from star wars "
Clones maybe the first wave were, but I myself imagine that the following storm troopers must have been recruited, much like an earlier poster I have read a storm troopers tale and the Xwing series. (sad aint I?)...
also although totally unrelated a song by weird al yankovic features a young man wishing to join the storm troopers.
Id asume that in the next film when the clone war has raged on so long and so many casualitys are taken the nice tall and skinny people with the wierd eyes will not be able to make enough clones for the needs of the war and a new stance will be taken, storm troopers will be recruited, just your average joe given a blaster and a helmet and subjected to a mental and physical training no doubt including bits and bobs of the infamous bounty hunters DNA.
and if you were in a war against a clone army that is constantly refreshing its self... where would you attack first? ......i think tall skinny aliens are gonna get their ass kicked good! lol
also on an unrelated string I was amazed by the ammount of people who havent yet twiggged that the emporer IS senater palpatine... I guess i picked it up from reading the books but so many people I have talked to have not realised! is Lucas intending to use it as the big twist much like Lukes Dad?!
I am your father
Lier!!!!
(Edited by Tainted Fluff 06/06/2002 12:45)
"Clones maybe the first wave were, but I myself imagine that the following storm troopers must have been recruited, much like an earlier poster I have read a storm troopers tale and the Xwing series. (sad aint I?)...
also although totally unrelated a song by weird al yankovic features a young man wishing to join the storm troopers.
Id asume that in the next film when the clone war has raged on so long and so many casualitys are taken the nice tall and skinny people with the wierd eyes will not be able to make enough clones for the needs of the war and a new stance will be taken, storm troopers will be recruited, just your average joe given a blaster and a helmet and subjected to a mental and physical training no doubt including bits and bobs of the infamous bounty hunters DNA.
and if you were in a war against a clone army that is constantly refreshing its self... where would you attack first? ......i think tall skinny aliens are gonna get their ass kicked good! lol
also on an unrelated string I was amazed by the ammount of people who havent yet twiggged that the emporer IS senater palpatine... I guess i picked it up from reading the books but so many people I have talked to have not realised! is Lucas intending to use it as the big twist much like Lukes Dad?!
I am your father Lier!!!!(Edited by Tainted Fluff 06/06/2002 12:45)
Posted: 12:44 Jun 06 2002 I don't think you really need to have read the books to figure this one out. The end of Phantom Menace kinda gives it away, and if you didn't get that, AOTC is full of really, really subtle hints about it.. Did these people manage to pick up on the fact that Anakin is gonna become Darth Vader??
by Tainted Fluff
also on an unrelated string I was amazed by the ammount of people who havent yet twiggged that the emporer IS senater palpatine... I guess i picked it up from reading the books but so many people I have talked to have not realised! is Lucas intending to use it as the big twist much like Lukes Dad?!
Posted: 13:19 Jun 06 2002
lol yeah and even the boba fett bit lol
but as soon as i mentioned it they twigged...
I was pretty amazed they didnt realise myself
but as soon as i mentioned it they twigged...
I was pretty amazed they didnt realise myself
Posted: 15:18 Jun 06 2002
i don't claim to know that much about star wars, but i do know that "Kyle Katarn" from the dark forces / Jedi knight games is an ex-storm trooper and he does not look anything like jango fett.
Also, i have not read books or anything, but i worked out that senator palpatine was the emperor, and i'm not actually that sure how when i think about it.
Also, i have not read books or anything, but i worked out that senator palpatine was the emperor, and i'm not actually that sure how when i think about it.
Posted: 22:59 Jun 06 2002 
Actually, this got me to thinking about how obvious it is that Palpatine is to become the Emperor and that he is in turn Darth Sidious. It had seemed blatantly obvious, but come to think of it, unless you're a real obsessive about Star Wars it isn't that obvious, and certainly isn't overtly stated in Episodes 1 and 2.
Yes, anyone who's seen A New Hope more than twice knows that the Emperor dissolves the senate just before the film chronologically starts (as we are informed by Vader at the beginning), so Episode 2 should be a big hint. And there are lots of clues in both episodes 1 and 2 as to Palpatine's true identity and future role, but these are easier to spot when you already know.
So how did I know? Well, I've never really read any of the books, although I vaguely remember reading one when I was younger (Splinter in the Mind's Eye? I forget), as well as getting the monthly magazine (that was promising us Episode 1 as far back as '86, I think), but I don't think it was that. No, as a kid, and like many others, I was obsessed with the Star Wars toys, and I remembered that there was an Emperor Palpatine figure.
Wonder if I'd have worked it out if I didn't have that figure...
Yes, anyone who's seen A New Hope more than twice knows that the Emperor dissolves the senate just before the film chronologically starts (as we are informed by Vader at the beginning), so Episode 2 should be a big hint. And there are lots of clues in both episodes 1 and 2 as to Palpatine's true identity and future role, but these are easier to spot when you already know.
So how did I know? Well, I've never really read any of the books, although I vaguely remember reading one when I was younger (Splinter in the Mind's Eye? I forget), as well as getting the monthly magazine (that was promising us Episode 1 as far back as '86, I think), but I don't think it was that. No, as a kid, and like many others, I was obsessed with the Star Wars toys, and I remembered that there was an Emperor Palpatine figure.
Wonder if I'd have worked it out if I didn't have that figure...
Posted: 07:51 Jun 07 2002 [ 1 2 ]