I actually enjoyed this more on second viewing. That could be just because I didn't have the same expectations though, I'm not sure.

It is said however that revolutions will tie up all the loose ends.. Cunning plot device or just lazy profiteering?

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by Stoo
It is said however that revolutions will tie up all the loose ends.. Cunning plot device or just lazy profiteering?

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I wouldn't say it's either. They were made back-to-back and are the second and third parts of a trilogy (though I prefer to think of them as a two-part story which happens to be a sequel to The Matrix), so of course part 3 is gonna tie up the loose ends of part 2. In the same way that Return of the Jedi tied up the loose ends of Empire Strikes Back. In fact that's kind of given away by the 'To Be Concluded' bit at the end...

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by Stoo
Yep, she was in the Zion scene as the sister(?) of the girlfriend of the pilot

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Sister-in-law, I think. Link's wife seemed to be the sister of Tank and Dozer (she says she lost two brothers to the Neb, so presumably Tank has died in the last six months) and Cas to be Dozer's wife.

Her name is Gina Torres by the by. She was also a regular on Firefly and - for her sins - Cleopatra 2525, as well as a recurring cast member in Alias and Hercules. A regular cult trouper.

I thought the film was a terrific ride. Not the big event that the original was, but nonetheless good fun to watch.

The idea that vampires, aliens etc are rogue programmes was a nice touch, given that means they are chased down by the Agents - the Men in Black. It is possible that this is just there for the sake of the levels of Enter the Matrix where Niobe gets to run around with a wooden stake getting all Buffy on some vampires in the Merovingian's house.



The idea that the exiled programmes see themselves as a kind of lost dynasty in the mould of Templar conspiracies also tickled my fancy, as did the idea that past Matrix versions might have had more vampires and werewolves in them.

While it isn't directly implied, I'm quite taken by the idea of the other five Matrix runs being set in other time periods: I could really go for a high medieval Matrix, where the resistance are seen as witches, the machines as demons, and the One is a kind of Grail champion seeking out the evil wizard in his ivory tower.

Come on: Tell me that wouldn't be cool?

I do find that the way this film has been done is very interesting. The fact that the intro with the Osiris is a separate thing - I'd guess that the kid who idolises Neo is also from an Animatrix - and that certain tangential plot elements are only explored in the game.

Exciting new horizons in movie making, or a cunning way to get mo' money: You decide.

Oh yeah, and what's up with the Zion rave? Weird.

When I first saw it, I liked it as an action film. Then I read about all the numerological and mythological references, all the plot specualtion people have come up with (the councillor was the previous One, Persephone is the Mother not the Oracle) and went to see it again. It ties up all the questions and loose ends from the the first movie and sets up a whole lot more.

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by The Prophet
(quotes)

While it isn't directly implied, I'm quite taken by the idea of the other five Matrix runs being set in other time periods: I could really go for a high medieval Matrix, where the resistance are seen as witches, the machines as demons, and the One is a kind of Grail champion seeking out the evil wizard in his ivory tower.

Come on: Tell me that wouldn't be cool?

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Except when they free people from the Matrix and they're completely unable to comprehend the Matrix or help in the fight against it.

I did enjoy the film although didn't like the CGI scene.

Fantastic mind mess with the head on Neo and the whole The One deal. However I couldn't help but walk away with the impression the Zion is the Architects own Big Brother Experiment!!!!

As for the coucillor being the previous one, I don't think so. It would mean that the people of Zion would know all the consequences of pursuing the prophecy. Also he wouldn't be alive still for that many generations to exist in the one place if it come from a gene pool of 24 people. It really would take a hundred years or so....

Looking forward to haveing answers give to the new qestions raised. Roll on Christmas.

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by Koala

As for the coucillor being the previous one, I don't think so. It would mean that the people of Zion would know all the consequences of pursuing the prophecy. Also he wouldn't be alive still for that many generations to exist in the one place if it come from a gene pool of 24 people. It really would take a hundred years or so....

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It doesn't have to have been going that long - new people come out of the matrix as well as being born, and Morpheus said that far more people had been rescued of late...

We aren't told what happens to the One after he chooses the founders of Zion - he might go back into Zion or he might go into the new matrix or he might cease to exist.

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by The Prophet
Link's wife seemed to be the sister of Tank and Dozer (she says she lost two brothers to the Neb, so presumably Tank has died in the last six months) and Cas to be Dozer's wife.

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The actor who played Tank (Marcus Chong) was involved in a couple of disputes during negotiations for the next two movies. Some (biased) info can be found here.
I guess they killed him off to save explaining where he was in Reloaded and Revolutions *shrug*

As for the movie, I'm another one joining the disapointed camp. When I go to see a sequel I try not to have any expectations because if you adored the first movie, the second will always be a let down. But I'm not sure I'd have been too impressed with it as a stand alone movie either

Some of the CGI was pathetic and made that "Spiderman climbing up the wall" sequence look positively realistic. Some of the fight scenes were overly long and started to bore me, the speeches (as previously mentioned) were too long and in cases unnecessary and I've always objected to being bashed in the face with "the point."

There were some good points. MonSTeR wasn't the only one who noticed the "red pill" jelly bean and the twins were fantastic (I only hope that wasn't the last we'll see of them). It answered some questions I had from the first movie, such as who the Oracle was and why she and her companions were never "taken" by an Agent, but not in a fashion I would have expected from the creators of the first movie. It was almost like a bad fanfic writer had sent in the script and definately *not* as if the story was always intended to span a trilogy of movies.

It's also fair to assume that because the two movies were made simultaneously that the third will be pretty much like the second. Hopefully they'll listen to feedback and re-edit/re-shoot as necessary.

I'm sure there's more I wanted to say, but that's the gist of it

{edit to fix link}

(Edited by Yvonne 27/05/2003 23:56)

yep dissapointed too It had its moments but I was bored in parts and I dunno, even the cliff hanger ending i'm not exactly on the edge of my seat wanting to nkow what happens, I couldn't really care less, I gotta see x2 thats supposed to be better.

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by Hoggy
(quotes)

Except when they free people from the Matrix and they're completely unable to comprehend the Matrix or help in the fight against it.

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It's a demonic subterfuge. The real world is the hell they are trapped in, the Matrix is the lie they are fed, and the demons must be vanquished in order for the people to get back to God's clean Earth. The fact that there is no clean Earth to return to is irrelevant, since ultimately the One's destiny doesn't lead to freedom and everyone gets wiped out by the purge.

right my turn-
first of all i thought this film rocked! it was awesome and i came out of the cinema with tears in my eyes.
i will say the film goes between scenes of jaw dropping action and scenes where you REALLY need to pay attention to understand what its all about. theres so much in the plot that i think it needed the long speeches. hell you can do a masters degree in Matrix philosophy. just go to the wensite and see the page devoted to it!
i adored the zionparty/sex scene. it was so well done you could feel the heat and taste the sweat on the people. it made me tingle.
the car chase was incredible..wow knowing that carrie ann moss drove that bike herself just adds to the effect.
the fight with the 100 odd smiths was cool and although yes at times you could see the cgi, to me that was just a side effect of the human program going beyond its boundries! inside the matrix! Hugo weaving as Smith was sooo funny " me me me me.... ME TOO". "MY GOD!"...."Mr Smith will do"
the many fight scenes had improved since the first film, they had a more beautiful dance like quality, gorgeously coreagraphed and after reading Keanu did all his own fighting, and he is now the most skilled non profesional martail artist actor in the world -it defiatly shows.you could tell each actor has their own style-Neo's is fluid and almost without gravity, trinity's has lots of high kicks and dance like moves, whereas Morpehous is all powerhouse kicks and punches. nice touches here and there.
the scene that had me though was the end bit after neo had caught trinity and used his power to restart her heart...i was in tears.. awesome just awesome.

niggling things....
Merinovians accent-surely they chose an actor that could do a bad french accent.....an accent that bad had to be for a reason
the twins werent in it enough. how cool were they!
morpheous katana was always in the right place for him..it moved from arm reach length to body length back to arm reach length!
persephone wasnt in it enough
November's too far away!cant wait till then have to see it now and i devoured the teaser for the third film at the end....
last word-i am a devoted disciple of neo and worship at his feet- I want his coat!!!

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by Hoggy
When I first saw it, I liked it as an action film. Then I read about all the numerological and mythological references, all the plot specualtion people have come up with (the councillor was the previous One, Persephone is the Mother not the Oracle) and went to see it again. It ties up all the questions and loose ends from the the first movie and sets up a whole lot more.

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oh hell now you've got me thinking more! Ive been reading the philosophy of the films and it mind blowing!

oh did you spot the guy being taken away in the scene where Neo,Trinity and Morpheus are taken to Merovingion? he seems important to me otherwise why did Neo and he make eye contact?

ive seen alot of people say it not as good as the first film. that it could have been more.
if the second/third film had had different/more then it would not follow on from the first as they are a triptich , one can not stand out, they must combine as a whole to really be effective.
the second film is only set 6 months after the first and to have a markable difference in look would have been out of place.
i think it flows beautifully from the first and made a point to watch the first before i watched the second for a third time!
cant wait till i can see all three together including the animatrix episodes....

(Edited by nemesis 29/05/2003 13:28)

ill let someone else post now!

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by Demona
(quotes)

It doesn't have to have been going that long - new people come out of the matrix as well as being born, and Morpheus said that far more people had been rescued of late...

We aren't told what happens to the One after he chooses the founders of Zion - he might go back into Zion or he might go into the new matrix or he might cease to exist.

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we are told. the Architect tells Neo that when he walks through the door on his right he will be reistalled into the matrix and from there he will pick those who will start the new Zion. thats how i heard it anyway. Damn i may have to watch it again-shucks!so at least i dont think the councellor is the last chosen one. Now all i have to do is work out if Persephone is the mother! i did wonder if when she kissed Neo she passed on something through her lipstick, she did make a point of putting it on before she asked for the kiss. (did anyone else imagine steam coming out of Trinity's ears in that scene?)

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by the prophet
While it isn't directly implied, I'm quite taken by the idea of the other five Matrix runs being set in other time periods: I could really go for a high medieval Matrix, where the resistance are seen as witches, the machines as demons, and the One is a kind of Grail champion seeking out the evil wizard in his ivory tower

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how would the the resitance free those people. in medeival times there are no computers. no way of getting back and forth between the real world and the matrix. No there have been many matrix but all one after the other. As Morpheus says in the first, after the war people lost track of time and they have no idea what the date is now. Neo in the second says that noone knows that there were previous matixs because the predecessores were wiped out. There of course are references to the charcters being as you said. Trinity and neo do things that are like magic, the machines such as the sentinals look like demons out of our worst nightmares, and the amount of religious context would take up way too much time to say, but lets just say theres references to Gnostic faith, the kabbalah and buddism. phew!

(Edited by nemesis 29/05/2003 02:09)

(Edited by nemesis 29/05/2003 02:10)

didnt work did it............somebody else post something before i think of another point!

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by nemesis
(quotes)


we are told. the Architect tells Neo that when he walks through the door on his right he will be reistalled into the matrix and from there he will pick those who will start the new Zion. thats how i heard it anyway.

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Yes, but not everyone in Zion is descended from that core. New people come out. The councillor certainly implied that he had come out, although that could be because he was the one. Certainly it lends weight to my carefully thought out 'he was evil in Star Trek, don't trust him' theory if he's the former One making sure that Neo completes his machine-given purpose.

One thing I'm not quite clear on: Did he make the choice the architect wanted him to or not?

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Damn i may have to watch it again-shucks!so at least i dont think the councellor is the last chosen one. Now all i have to do is work out if Persephone is the mother! i did wonder if when she kissed Neo she passed on something through her lipstick, she did make a point of putting it on before she asked for the kiss. (did anyone else imagine steam coming out of Trinity's ears in that scene?)

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Well, in Enter the Matrix she demands the same thing from Niobe in exchange for access to the Merovingian's dungeon to rescue Ghost. Not sure if Ghost gets the same deal if you're playing him, because I haven't got him up to that point yet.

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how would the the resitance free those people. in medeival times there are no computers. no way of getting back and forth between the real world and the matrix.

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Okay; I realise I was working on cool more than logic - which, I maintain, makes me little different from the Wachowski (sp?) brothers save in terms of budget - but you don't need computers to get in and out of the Matrix; not computers in the Matrix anyway. The big stumbler would be getting the people you bring out to accept what they see, but since I assume the hovercraft and all Zion's stuff - especially the interfaces - to be salvaged from the machines, all you need is for the former One to get the ball rolling by teaching the first people how it works.

The hard lines which let them patch in are simply symbolised by telephones; they could be anything (although I'm going for faerie rings). The mobiles are a little trickier to work with, but give me time.

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No there have been many matrix but all one after the other. As Morpheus says in the first, after the war people lost track of time and they have no idea what the date is now. Neo in the second says that noone knows that there were previous matixs because the predecessores were wiped out. There of course are references to the charcters being as you said. Trinity and neo do things that are like magic, the machines such as the sentinals look like demons out of our worst nightmares, and the amount of religious context would take up way too much time to say, but lets just say theres references to Gnostic faith, the kabbalah and buddism. phew!

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We also know that there was at least one Matrix with vampires and werewolves in it, possibly the first, although why the 'perfect' world would have werewolves in is a bit of a puzzler.

(Edited by The Prophet 29/05/2003 09:16)

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by Sideshow Bob
Well that was a well plotted piece of non claptrap that never made me want to retch

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In fairness, I didn't walk out of the cinema disappointed but that is only because I was expecting the movie to be poor and it fulfilled my expectations.

Firstly, there was almost no plot and please, don't give me some rubbish about the deep philosophical ramifications. They can be summed up by two basic ideas... freewill versus determinism and the dream of the butterfly.

From what I can remember, the story basically went Zion is under attack, go to see the oracle, go to see the keymaker, go to see the architect... the end.

The fight sequences were mechanical exercises, technically impressive but lacking in any sense of grace or poetry. Of the action scenes, only the car chase stood out as a truly exciting piece of visceral cinema.

The dialogue stank... many of the audience burst into laughter at 'Only by fighting a man can you truly know him' whilst Hugo Weaving's only job seemed to be repeat the words 'Mister Anderson' at regular intervals (from the trail for the final movie it would appear this will also be his major function in that film).

Special mention also to the party sequence in Zion which seemed to go on for several weeks and was akin to being trapped in some nightmarish Christina Aguilera video.

Other than that, the acting was competent but since none of them were asked to do much more than look impassive until the computers put them through their paces it doesn't take an oracle to predict that there will be no awards lavished here.

Whilst the first film spawned numerous iconic moments, here there were none.

The soundtrack was disappointingly bland never rising to counterpoint the action the way it did with frequency in the first movie.

All in all, an overindulgent waste of everyone's time and money which tries to compensate for having nothing of interest to say by shouting as loudly as possible.

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by nemesis
niggling things....
Merinovians accent-surely they chose an actor that could do a bad french accent.....an accent that bad had to be for a reason

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You know he's French, right?