Tangent 21 - Star Wars Discussion - Episode 2: Attack Of The Clones

Posted by
Milky

Posted on
23:39
Jun 06 2003

Star Wars Discussion - Episode 2: Attack Of The Clones

Well we've done Episode 1 and it seems that it wasn't a well recieved part of the Star Wars saga. So what about episode 2. I liked AOTC. It wasn't the best in the Star Wars saga but for me it's not the worst either. So what do I like/hate about it then.

It starts off with a Naboo cruiser and it's fighter escort approaching and landing on Coruscant, then blowing up. A good scene which leaves us with a question about who's trying to kill Padme. We're given a basic rundown on current Galactic politics and see Yoda, Mace Windu and some other Jedi talking to Chancellor Palpatine. So far so good(although my point about Yoda still stands

)

We're then introduced to a grown up Anakin who's already showing some un-jedi qualities. The scenes after where they foil the attempt on Padme's life and chase down Zeen are good if a little far fetched(I'm not to keen on Anakin jumping out of the Swoop and landing on Zeen's swoop but I'll let it pass cos it looked cool

) Zeen get's killed by Boba Fett!!!..but it's not it's Jango Fett and here's where I get annoyed.

Firstly the story splits into 2 peices with Obi-Wan going looking for Jango and finding the clone army and Anakin & Padme going to Naboo. The differing stories don't mesh together well at all. The Naboo scenes are to slow for me and don't work interspresed with the scenes of Obi-Wan learning new information on Kamino and his battle with Jango. Everytime the film cut to Naboo I just wished it would hurry up and get back to Obi Wan. Thats peeve number 1 but it's pretty minor..slightly annoying but it didn't ruin my enjoyment of the film too much.

Jango Fett is the template for the clone troopers produced by the Kamino for the Jedi/Republic army. Jango wanted his own unaltered clone which he called Boba..Boba Fett!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! Lucas has destroyed the whole history of Boba Fett and made a lot of questions appear.

First off according to the original history Boba Fett was originally Jaster Mereel, a Journeyman Protector from the planet Concord Dawn who was exiled for killing a crooked Journeyman. After his exile he joined the Imperial Army and served with distinction in the Stormtroopers before deciding that he would rather work for himself to right the wrongs of the world that other people wouldn't and became a Bounty Hunter. None of that is true now, although you could write a fan-fic which would tie it together(I've had some ideas

). More on Boba Fett later.

Next we see Anakin & Padme head back to Tatooine which is quite a good sequence of events. While they are there we've got Obi Wan following Jango to Geonosis. Again good scenes. Here's where things get crap. Obi Wan get's captured and interogated/talked at by Count Dooku...and the whole thing doesn't make sense. Dooku tells Obi-Wan that the senate is being guided by the dark side of the force, by a sith master(true Palpatine) He says that he is building his army to combat the Sith influence and that Obi-Wan should join him and help him to destroy the Sith as it's what Qui-Gonn would have done. But this isn't true as we see Dooku at the end handing the Death Star plans to Darth Sidious/Palpatine who Dooku was taking orders from so why did Dooku reveal the Sith influence in the Senate to Obi-Wan??? I'm not sure if I've explained this the way I want to so if I haven't I'll answer any questions about it.

Anakin and Padme get captured during their entertaining but unsuccessful attempt to save Obi-Wan. This brings up another point though. Since when could R2 fly?? When did he get those rocket booster things and why didn't he use them in the original films?? Would have saved a whole lot of swimming in Dagobah's swamps and instead of having a machine to slot him into the astromech port on an x-wing he could have just flown up..most annoying.

The battle between Obi-Wan, Anakin, Padme and the three creatures is good, and the battle scenes where the Jedi Knights arrive are also good apart from one thing. mace Windu kills Jango Fett infront of his son. Now if someone killed my father I'd be slightly upset about the fact and if I was to grow up to be a big bad Bounty Hunter I think I'd be wanting some revenge. So why doesn't Boba Fett have a major hatred for one of the players in his fathers death, one Darth Vader aka Anakin Skywalker?? Does he not know that Vader is Skywalker?? Doesn't he have an almost irrational hatred towards the Jedi(I'm thinking that if I was him I would) Doesn't Vader recognise the name/armour??

Anyway moving on Yoda appears with the Clone army, they kick butt then go after Dooku. I liked the Anakin/Obi-Wan/Dooku fight although I was a bit let down by the way that Yoda fought...dunno how I pictured him doing it but it wasn't like that. Film ends with loads of clone troopers boarding transports setting the scene for the next film and Anakin & Padme get hitched with Anakins new mechanical arm plain to see, his fall to the dark side and the path of Darth Vader has begun mentally and physically.

Anyway thats enough from me. As I said I thought it was an okay film and the main thing that spoiled it for me is the way Lucas has just rewritten history with no thought for the consequences...What do you think. Remember to keep thoughts on Episode 2 only. There will be a topic for Episode 4: A New Hope next as I'm going to do a discussion peice about Episode 3 at the end. Happy reading

11 Replies and 2258 Views in Total.

Incandenza It's not a zero-sum game.

I've had to look back to my comments on a friend's site to remind myself of just how bad this film is:

This movie was a piece of ****. George Lucas is raping the nostalgia of Star Wars fans, churning out complete tripe with neither plot nor character safe in the knowledge that people will still pay for it because of the label Star Wars.

There is *no* imagination in Episode 2. Instead, what you have is a masterclass in what *can* be done with special effects whilst no thought whatsoever goes into what should be done with them i.e., use them as the means to entertain, not as the entertainment itself.

One of the worst movies I have ever seen, the only reason that I enjoyed my time in the cinema was that me, the people I was with and everyone near us rapidly realised that this film could not be taken seriously and was only good for laughing at.

This is film making by a geek for geeks. There was no plot worth mentioning, nor was there character development or even the pleasure of well written dialogue. All there is to enjoy is the pleasure of a trainspotter identifying links to previous (better) movies.

I went with someone who had never seen a Star Wars movie before ... she came out at the end and asked why there was no story.

A number of specific gripes...

1) Amidala using a hair pin to unlock her handcuffs ... has Lucas not seen a movie in the last 100 years

2) When the combined wisdom and stored knowledge of the jedi order and the republic's government fails ... go to a diner and ask the chef

3) Diners ... 'A long time ago in a galaxy far far away...' ... there is nothing cool or funny about western culture appearing in a Star Wars film ... it is anachronistic at best ... stupid and clumsy at worst.

4) Good call my young padewan apprentice ... I was waiting for Anakin to reply "Schwing"

5) Yoda's sentences, every one annoying are they

6) Yoda allowing the Count to escape whilst holding up the very heavy pillar tm.. The pillar's heavy, Anakin and Obi Wan are light... I think I see a solution.

7) The rest of the movie (ok this is cheating slightly)

To repeat in the hope that eventually it will sink in ... this movie was a piece of ****.

Looking back, I'd add to this that the dialogue was consistently atrocious, with the scenes between Anakin and Padma so leaden Superman would have trouble understanding them.

The only curiosity value left for me about the final movie is, given the consistent decline across 4 previous sequels, how can Lucas possibly make something worse than this? That said, I have no doubt he is capable of it.

Posted: 09:21 Jun 07 2003

Milky "Busted - Now that you're gone, I'm sleeping with the light on..." Pof, 2005

by Incandenza
Looking back, I'd add to this that the dialogue was consistently atrocious, with the scenes between Anakin and Padma so leaden Superman would have trouble understanding them.

Lucas is the worlds worst script-writer. He just doesn't have a flair for language.

by Harrison Ford(No...really!!)
You can write this s**t George, but you sure as hell can't say it

Note how many of Han Solo's lines were actually ad-libbed by Ford. The line in the cell block where he blasts the console and says "Well it was a pointless conversation anyway..." springs to mind

Posted: 22:27 Jun 08 2003

Jayjay "I may be scattered / A little shattered / What does it matter / No one has a fit like I do / I'm the only one that fits you"

Actually, for me this film is only surpassed by Empire Strikes Back in the Star Wars series. Most of the annoying (and offensive) aspects from Phantom Menace are dropped. Only the pathetic use of Jar-Jar as device to let Palpatine get his way registers as high on the Naffometer as Phantom Menace does. And it lacks, for me, the tacky sentimentality that both A New Hope and Return of the Jedi are prone to.

As for rewriting history, this really isn't an issue for me. I read a couple of the spin off books when I was a kid but didn't find them interesting enough to a remember any of it as an adult. All that you've said about Boba Fett, Milky, I have no memory of. And as far as I am aware, Lucas has never stated that they were part of the official history, and thus are not something he needs to worry about. I understand your point (and disappointment); I just don't share them.

I thought the story was well paced, the plot developments done so as to keep your interest in what is going to happen next and the character development such that you cared what happens to them all. A combination that has been preciously rare in films of late, and is essential, in my less than humble one, for a good film.

by Milky
...and the whole thing doesn't make sense. Dooku tells Obi-Wan that the senate is being guided by the dark side of the force, by a sith master(true Palpatine) He says that he is building his army to combat the Sith influence and that Obi-Wan should join him and help him to destroy the Sith as it's what Qui-Gonn would have done. But this isn't true as we see Dooku at the end handing the Death Star plans to Darth Sidious/Palpatine who Dooku was taking orders from so why did Dooku reveal the Sith influence in the Senate to Obi-Wan???

Clearly the attempt here is to recruit Obi-Wan, and failing that, to put him off the scent of Palpatine. If I remember correctly Yoda mentions something about the Sith intermixing their lies with just enough truth to give them credibility. Yes, Dooku is clearly Maul's replacement as Sidious' disciple. And mentioning the plot does seem a little odd, but with the rejection of Dooku comes the refusal to believe anything he has said, thus making the plot seem an elaborate lie, used only to recruit Obi-Wan. Does that make any sense? Scarily for me, it does...

As for the scene at the end, I was left thinking more about how it mirrors the end of Empire, with the shot of Luke and his replacement hand than anything else.

And the Yoda/Dooku fight scene has to be one of my favourite Star Wars moments ever. It sooooooooo kicked ass! Yes, it was a little over the top, but if you're prepared not to take things too seriously it was exactly how it should have been. Well, it was for me, anyway.

As for the diner being incongruous, I don't see how it is any worse than the Cantina or a certain band that owed more than a little to Jazz. Again, Star Wars is not a particularly deep or intelligent series of movies, and shouldn't be taken too seriously. Truth is, it is a series of very light, but highly entertaining, kids films. Which many of us saw for the first time when we were little, and had our childhood dominated by Star Wars spin offs and general merchandising, which is why it has a disproportionate place in (most of) our hearts.

Posted: 05:16 Jun 14 2003

pimpdaddy "Well I've seen Mel Gibson's movie the Passion and Mel Gibson says you are snakes and you are liars and if the roadwarrior said it, it must be true."-Eric Cartman

Okay this film is a hell of a lot better than phantom menace (then again that's not hard) but there are still a few niggles such as how is it that yoda who can sense anakin's pain from halfway across the galaxy can't sense that there is a force user in the senate when he is on the same planet as him. Also why is that a jedi padawan is given a highly important mission such as protecting one of the most important senators and not a fully fledged Jedi knight.

Also hard to believe that a whineing brat will grow up to become the most feared man in the galaxy

Posted: 13:56 Jun 14 2003

Milky "Busted - Now that you're gone, I'm sleeping with the light on..." Pof, 2005

by Jayjay
Most of the annoying (and offensive) aspects from Phantom Menace are dropped. Only the pathetic use of Jar-Jar as device to let Palpatine get his way registers as high on the Naffometer as Phantom Menace does.

I thought this was really clever. Lucas must have seen the utter contempt that most people hold the Jar Jar character in. Using him as the unwitting stooge in Palpatines plan to take over the galaxy to me gives us just one more reason to hate Jar Jar..a plus in my book

by Jayjay
As for rewriting history, this really isn't an issue for me. I read a couple of the spin off books when I was a kid but didn't find them interesting enough to a remember any of it as an adult. All that you've said about Boba Fett, Milky, I have no memory of. And as far as I am aware, Lucas has never stated that they were part of the official history, and thus are not something he needs to worry about. I understand your point (and disappointment); I just don't share them.

Lucasfilm monitor the books and George Lucas has final say on what is published. It has been said that the books are *not* lore and storys have changed some of the previously written books but then Lucasfilm have gotten someone to write a story to fill in the blanks. I can only guess that a story will be written to explain Boba Fett's actions as he grows older.

by Jayjay
Clearly the attempt here is to recruit Obi-Wan, and failing that, to put him off the scent of Palpatine. If I remember correctly Yoda mentions something about the Sith intermixing their lies with just enough truth to give them credibility. Yes, Dooku is clearly Maul's replacement as Sidious' disciple. And mentioning the plot does seem a little odd, but with the rejection of Dooku comes the refusal to believe anything he has said, thus making the plot seem an elaborate lie, used only to recruit Obi-Wan. Does that make any sense? Scarily for me, it does...

Yeah I thought this as well...I just think that they wasted a really good storyline. Imagine that Dooku was telling the truth, that the army he was forming was to battle the growing Sith forces which were coming from an unknown source within the Republic. If the battle had went the same way with the Jedi/Clones defeating the seperatist armies and Dooku fleeing imagine the irony at a later date when the Jedi would have found out they'd helped to destroy the very army which may have saved them...a far better story in my eyes..you could even have had Dooku being captured at the end skulking around Coruscant by a new Sith Apprentice, the apprentice could then kill Dooku and find the Death Star plans on him. To me that would have been a better story.

by Jayjay
As for the scene at the end, I was left thinking more about how it mirrors the end of Empire, with the shot of Luke and his replacement hand than anything else.

Yeah I noticed that as well, the first thing I thought when I saw it and I mentioned it to the people I saw the film with. Surprisingly they weren't as impressed

by Pimpdaddy aka DLS
but there are still a few niggles such as how is it that yoda who can sense anakin's pain from halfway across the galaxy can't sense that there is a force user in the senate when he is on the same planet as him.

The Sith are masters at hiding themselves. Also Yoda & Mace say earlier in the film that the Jedi's powers are weakening as they discuss whether or not to inform the Senate about it.

by Pimpdaddy aka DLS
Also hard to believe that a whineing brat will grow up to become the most feared man in the galaxy

Not for me. You can see Anakin becoming more violent, more single-minded. His comments about a dictatorship to Padme show how his thinking is going. Couple that with the amazing amount of untapped power that he has and it's quite believable..expect more whining in Ep 3

Posted: 15:03 Jun 14 2003

pimpdaddy "Well I've seen Mel Gibson's movie the Passion and Mel Gibson says you are snakes and you are liars and if the roadwarrior said it, it must be true."-Eric Cartman

by Milky
(quotes)

The Sith are masters at hiding themselves. Also Yoda & Mace say earlier in the film that the Jedi's powers are weakening as they discuss whether or not to inform the Senate about it.

(quotes)

Not for me. You can see Anakin becoming more violent, more single-minded. His comments about a dictatorship to Padme show how his thinking is going. Couple that with the amazing amount of untapped power that he has and it's quite believable..expect more whining in Ep 3

What they're weakening so much that yoda can take in force lightning and send back and bounce around like zebedee

Ah but you.ve got to admit that he does sound a bit like harry enfield's kevin (takes on whining voice and starts to stomp his feet) "its not fair he's holding me back"

And who says that I'm DLS

(Edited by pimpdaddy 14/06/2003 15:52)

(Edited by pimpdaddy 14/06/2003 15:53)

Posted: 15:51 Jun 14 2003

Stoo There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence.

by Milky
Not for me. You can see Anakin becoming more violent, more single-minded. His comments about a dictatorship to Padme show how his thinking is going. Couple that with the amazing amount of untapped power that he has and it's quite believable..expect more whining in Ep 3

I think you could believe it more if the script and acting wasn't so dire, it just looks totally unconvincing as it stands.

Posted: 17:09 Jun 14 2003

Milky "Busted - Now that you're gone, I'm sleeping with the light on..." Pof, 2005

by pimpdaddy aka DLS
And who says that I'm DLS

I have my sources

Posted: 19:24 Jun 14 2003

Jayjay "I may be scattered / A little shattered / What does it matter / No one has a fit like I do / I'm the only one that fits you"

by pimpdaddy
Ah but you.ve got to admit that he does sound a bit like harry enfield's kevin (takes on whining voice and starts to stomp his feet) "its not fair he's holding me back"

Well, after all, he is still a teenager in AOTC. For me the signs of pride and arrogance, the keys to the dark side, are there in place ready for him being pushed over in episode 3 (presumably with more coaching from Sidious and the death of Padme). I really don't see the accusation of bad acting, or even poor dialogue. Ok, it doesn't ripple with the style of a Tarantino movie, but if it did I don't think it would work in this setting. What we have is believable for the characters and helps to keep the plot moving. Nothing more is needed.

As for Anakin guarding Padme, wasn't that at the request of Palpatine? And therefore clearly part of his desire to tempt Anakin away from the Jedi Council?

Posted: 19:42 Jun 14 2003

pimpdaddy "Well I've seen Mel Gibson's movie the Passion and Mel Gibson says you are snakes and you are liars and if the roadwarrior said it, it must be true."-Eric Cartman

by Milky
(quotes)

I have my sources

such as

Posted: 10:56 Jun 16 2003

Milky "Busted - Now that you're gone, I'm sleeping with the light on..." Pof, 2005

by pimpdaddy aka DLS
(quotes)

such as

I can't reveal my sources, that would be bad. Also if you weren't DLS then how would you know what DLS means? A straight out 'huh DLS?' would have been more appropriate

.

Anyway this ain't the place to have a convo about DLS...if you wanna chat about it then get my MSN addy from Bipolar and I'll chat with ya there.

Back to Episode 2 discussion please...

Posted: 15:06 Jun 16 2003

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