Return to the bad old days if you ask me. the only thing that may help me is the changes to the VAT returns for small bsuinesses.

Of course he's released no details of this yet so it may be (and probably is) a wolf in sheeps clothing.

I SO cant wait to move to Spain

I discovered this morning that £3500 is spent per child on education. I never exprectd it to be that high. thats on a par with private school fees. Whats the point of that point? Simple. private school turn out good, well behaved pupils with good grades. So why cant state schools on the same money?

It's not a question of more money for ANY public service, it's a question of spending it efficently.

I think it's a pretty good Budget. The increase in NI isn't huge, and I'm glad it's extended to all earnings and not capped as the rest of NI is. Given that the trade-off is serious investment in the NHS and a lot of measures to help families and others on low incomes then as Inc said, it's a small price.

Businesswise, a lot of help for small companies: simplification of VAT, reductions in Corporation Tax and Capital Gains, assistance with tax and payroll - if I ran the small business I hope to one day I think I'd be very pleased. Not so bad for bigger companies as well, I was chacking Guardian Online while my boss was in the office and he was very pleased that we can now automatically recover VAT on bad debts.

And 14p off the price of a pint of real ale - now that can't be bad

Am going to have to look at the corporation tax part.
The IR35 tax rule was the reason I left the country - now I might come back (I don't mind paying a fair share, but that was over the top)
Other than that, a 1% NI increase isnt too bad.
The interesting thing is living in different countries you see that each country has it's good and bad points.
Of course, once I buy that island and run my own goverment I'm gonna have these problems myself.

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by Cat



I discovered this morning that £3500 is spent per child on education. I never exprectd it to be that high. thats on a par with private school fees. Whats the point of that point? Simple. private school turn out good, well behaved pupils with good grades.

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I usually avoid politics like the plague... i don't pretend to understand it..

Private schools turn out good well behaved pupils with good grades??... since when?. Does that say that all pupils at comprehensives are the exact opposite??... because i was a latter and i think i did okay... I think the grade depends on the pupil and their abilities as well as the quality of education.

I don't deny that some schools are failing, and failing badly.. and some pupils are falling between the cracks, etc etc... but surely there are some "privately" schooled pupils in the same situation?.. not having the benefit of private education, this is just a guess, i don't believe that all privately educated pupils are "good, well behaved with good grades".

Hopefully the increase in National Insurance payments will help sort out our education system as well as the NHS. Money has to come from somewhere.

**Keenangel skulks out of the thread never ever to return again**


(Edited by Keenangel 17/04/2002 21:42)

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by ..
Private schools turn out good well behaved pupils with good grades??... since when?. Does that say that all pupils at comprehensives are the exact opposite??...

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Check the league tables next time they come out. private schools consistently out perform state schools. Thats a fact.

You can go through state school and come out with straight A's, but your chances are highter at a private school.

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by ..
but surely there are some "privately" schooled pupils in the same situation?.. not having the benefit of private education, this is just a guess, i don't believe that all privately educated pupils are "good, well behaved with good grades".

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OK, they may not all be well behaved, well adjusted but who is?

True, there are some private school with problems (mostly drugs) but the pubils are generally delt with swiftly and it doesnt re-occure.

I dont often tell people this 'cos they get this weird look on their face, but i went to private school.

The real issue is why tho. I was failing terrably in a state school. I was the quiet, shy, bullied one and they did NOTHING to help me. At the private school they said i was 2 yrs behind their expectations and i had to go down a year (2 yrs was too big a gap, they said). they almost didnt take me because my basic language and numeracy skills at 8 were so poor.

Mum had to sacrifice a lot to send me there and i am eternally grateful.

having seen both systems, i would never risk my child in the state system. I wont gamble with my childs education.

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by Cat
Check the league tables next time they come out. private schools consistently out perform state schools. Thats a fact.

You can go through state school and come out with straight A's, but your chances are highter at a private school.

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I have absolutely no doubt that this is the case.

I am, however, puzzled as to what your actual point is. Are you simply saying that anyone who can afford to should send their kids to private school? That the state should pay to send everyone to private school? That private schools are inherently better run and more efficient than state schools? I'd disagree with any of that, but I like to know exactly what I'm disagreeing with.

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by Cat
Check the league tables next time they come out. private schools consistently out perform state schools. Thats a fact.

You can go through state school and come out with straight A's, but your chances are highter at a private school.

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This of course has nothing to do with the nature of the pupils that they accept.

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by Incandenza
(quotes)

This of course has nothing to do with the nature of the pupils that they accept.

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Or the type of parents that would send their children their. I think that there is a limit to the things that schools can achieve, and parents have to be responsible for their childrens behaviour too. If it is the case that the parents are not providing suitable support and environment for their children, then surely the school cannot be held solely responsible if they fail.

...and *much* smaller class sizes, more contact time, and more resources - paid for by the entrance & term fees..

My point was simply that state schools get the same, on average, as private schools per head. (not counting Eton and other top notch private school)

Why cant we expect the same results from state schools then?

I had previously believed that state schools received much less money, and that was why they had so many problems (EG. bigger classes, lower paid teachers, higher truance rates, less time and attention given to each pupil).

Now i realise they are on par with each other i am wondering why state schools do so badly with that money while private schools do so well.

This is kind of off topic though, so if anyone wants to put forward theories it's probably best to do it in a new thread.

edited 4 spelling

(Edited by Cat 18/04/2002 13:44)

(Edited by Cat 18/04/2002 13:45)

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by Cat
It's not a question of more money for ANY public service, it's a question of spending it efficently.

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Are you familiar with the Wanless report? Conducted by a former Chief Executive of NatWest Bank, it says that reform of the NHS is needed, but it also says it needs spending increases of at least £25 billion over the next 5 years. There's a Financial Times article here.
I believe even the Tory party have accepted that higher spending on the NHS is required, they just believe it should be done through some form of private insurance.

Anyway, it will come as a surprise to no-one that I welcome the National Insurance increases. The money is needed, and to me this is the fairest way of raising it.

Inc started a new thread for school discussion Here
Hope that helps

I'm not really fussed. The majority of it doesn't apply to me anyway.

The Budget... well I was quite relieved that there was no increase on fuel duty. I don't smoke or drink (that much that often) so not really impacted by those changes.

The extra National Insurance.... I don't mind paying it but is it going to help? I'll start a new thread with one of my thoughts on this so we don't stray from the main thread point here

Couldn't really see anything else that affected me personally in the budget.I was too young when Labour was last in power as I was born in '71 but I do vaguely remember lots of strikes & things over pay & conditions & powercuts & stuff - if it is a return to 'Tax & Spend Labour' then I really hope we don't get back to that