I can understand what your saying Kieran. In a way it is reverse racism *but* awards ceremonys like the Oscars & the Bafta's are notorious for not giving coloured performers the credit they deserve as the fact that Halle Berry was the first black actress to win Best Actress at the Oscars proves. Maybe they feel they need to have these awards ceremonys so that these people can get the recognition they deserve?.

Calm down, massuh Kieran, before you stain that white sheet of yours

Sorry Kieran, but I won't surprise you by disagreeing.

This isn't from fear of being branded racist, subscription to PC ethics, or white guilt. The EMMA awards have a clear remit and intention. The name is from Ethnic Multicultural Media Awards. Their intent is to highlight the contributions to our culture that usually goes overlooked. It is to highlight those talents that aren't recognized because of their skin colour. The award for Best Film Actor should be seen in that context. There is no claim that a white actor cannot be the best in the world, because thatÂ’s not what the awards are for. And letÂ’s not forget that no one didn't get an Oscar because they were white. No one didn't get a lead in a Hollywood blockbuster because they were white. The Emma's want to highlight that there are actors out there worthy of praise who aren't white, so let's celebrate them.

To suggest that this is anti-white racism misses the point. If the motive was race hate, then why did Richard Attenborough get a lifetime achievement award last year?

Things may have approved over the last fifty years, but it is still harder to make it in Europe or America if you aren't white. The Emmas will continue to be necessary as long as that is the case.

And I can thing of a long list of actors better than Russell Crowe, black and white.

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by Milky
the Oscars & the Bafta's are notorious for not giving coloured performers the credit they deserve

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True, but in recent years, which actor or actress didn't get nominated/win who should have, who was black or asian or what ever. The only person in the last five years, who I can think off, who didn't get an oscar who should have was Judi Dench for 'Mrs Brown'.

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by JayJay
Sorry Kieran, but I won't surprise you by disagreeing.

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Shock horror

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by JayJay
The award for Best Film Actor should be seen in that context.

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Not really, the award for 'Best Actor' should only ever be seen in the context of who was the best, not who's skin colour matches up.

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by JayJay
Things may have approved over the last fifty years, but it is still harder to make it in Europe or America if you aren't white. The Emmas will continue to be necessary as long as that is the case.

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I agree, a while ago, the Emma's would have been important, but in recent years, the degree of discrimination has drastically decreased. To keep the awards would act only as a monument to racism. Now-a-days, the Oscars and Bafta's (especially the Bafta's, dull though they are) really don't consider skin colour in their nominations.

I feel, above all, the Emma's emphasis the difference in skin colour, one that shouldn't be there. They point out the awards are for non-whites, yet use the argument they just want to fit in??? Surely your going out of your way to stand out by having these awards. It's like people who are in your face queer, big deal, who cares. You're gay, WOW, faint from the shock. It's annoying, no-one is ever impressed by it, it only serves as a label to say "hey, I'm different"

Oh, another should have got an oscar, Cate Blanchett (spelling) for Elizabeth, way better than Gwyneth "water gates" Paltrow

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by KieranFrost
Not really, the award for 'Best Actor' should only ever be seen in the context of who was the best, not who's skin colour matches up.

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So when the Brits give out an award for Best Artist, but only award it to best British artists, are they being racist?

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by KieranFrost
Now-a-days, the Oscars and Bafta's (especially the Bafta's, dull though they are) really don't consider skin colour in their nominations.

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How many black actors, actresses, directors and producers with Oscars or BAFTAs can you name? Now how many who are white? How many awards have Spike Lee, Will Smith, Samuel L. Jackson, Denzel Washington, Bruce Lee, John Singleton, Wesley Snipes or Pam Grier won? How many leading roles are giving to Black or Asian actors and actresses? How many Black or Asian writers, directors or producers can you name? While the racism isn't as visible or stated, the institutional racism still exists. The Emmas are there to give a higher profile to people who normally get over looked. And I am glad they exist.

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by KieranFrost
It's like people who are in your face queer, big deal, who cares. You're gay, WOW, faint from the shock. It's annoying, no-one is ever impressed by it, it only serves as a label to say "hey, I'm different"

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Have you ever stopped to think that they might just be being themselves? That people who are overtly camp are overtly camp, as opposed to trying to impress people?

Those are sweeping comments you make there, one's that even a pompous fool like myself wouldn't take on. Some might even say they're offensive. You might find it annoying, but not everyone does. Personally, I like people to be themselves, and as long as they aren't being nasty or just monumentally dumb then I rarely find them annoying.

Sorry Keiren, I have to agree with JayJay. It came on the TV after 24 (I think) and I *had* to watch it just to see what EMMA stood for

I was thinking as they were handing out the awards (apart from how unnatural that female presenter from holby city was in front of a live audience) how few of the award winnersI actually recognised - what does that tell you about how fair the other award institutions are? (or maybe its more to do with how little TV I watch )

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by Jayjay
The Emmas are there to give a higher profile to people who normally get over looked. And I am glad they exist.

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Me too.

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by Desire
It came on the TV after 24

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I love 24, except the showsonly 45 minutes, not a hour, what's with that????

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by JayJay
So when the Brits give out an award for Best Artist, but only award it to best British artists, are they being racist?

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If they stait it's for 'Best BRITISH Artist', it's okay, just as if the Emma's said it was for 'Best Ethnical Actor', it would be okay.

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by JayJay
How many black actors, actresses, directors and producers with Oscars or BAFTAs can you name? Now how many who are white? How many awards have Spike Lee, Will Smith, Samuel L. Jackson, Denzel Washington, Bruce Lee, John Singleton, Wesley Snipes or Pam Grier won?

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Oh dear, you have stumbled upon an oscar buff here I'm afraid.

1) Denzel Washington has two oscars, more, may I say, than most white oscar winners, and in some cases two more than most. Tom Cruise has none, Denzel two, so I don't think it's based on skin colour.
2) Spike Lee has an oscar for directing
3) Will Smith, come on... besides Ali (which he lost to Denzel) and Six Degrees of a Serpant, Will Smith isn't exactly a serious actor.
4) Bruce Lee, isn't he a marshal arts guy (could be wrong), if so, there isn't an oscar for best grunt
5) Samuel L. Jackson, great actor, but most of the time he's doing either action, or films with a bad man images, not much range. Got a nomination for Pulp Fiction, more than Travolta did.
6) Wesley Snipers (See Samuel L. Jackson)

Also, I often can't comment on director's or writers, because I have no clue if they're white or not, because you never see them and it's not to do with fame or being ignored because they're black or whatever. I have no clue what Ridley Scott looks likes and until recently, what Joss Whedon looks like. They're famous, but you just don't see them.

And yes, obviously more 'whites' have oscars and Bafta's, because there was a racists element, but in the last ten years, I promise, no racism is involved. Can you name anyone who should have got an award for a film and didn't, who's black or ethnic? Because if you can't, it must be said, it's not about colour.

Also, Whoopie Goldberg has an oscar, Sidney Poiter has two, so it's not about colour. Sorry

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by KieranFrost
I love 24, except the shows only 45 minutes, not a hour, what's with that????

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I assume that becuase it is shown on BBC2 with no advert breaks its shorter than when it is shown in USA. The ad breaks during its original screening probably padded it out to an hour. Just a guess though - and I won't continue this here as its nothing to do with the EMMAs.

If an award ceremony is stated as being for ethnic actors, or British artists, wouldn't it be a bit superfluous to have to keep adding that proviso for each individual award?

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by KieranFrost
obviously more 'whites' have oscars and Bafta's, because there was a racists element, but in the last ten years, I promise, no racism is involved.

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Wow, Kieran, I didn't realise you were in charge of all these award ceremonies! We are honoured

However, on a more serious note:

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by KieranFrost
Can you name anyone who should have got an award for a film and didn't, who's black or ethnic? Because if you can't, it must be said, it's not about colour.

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Samuel L. Jackson, great actor, but most of the time he's doing either action, or films with a bad man images, not much range.

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Can you name anyone from an ethnic minority who got a lead role in a major 'serious' Hollywood film when it wasn't a stipulation of the script that the character was black or Asian or whatever? As you have pointed out yourself, the majority of well-known black Hollywood actors have made their names in action/genre movies, which may be big box-office success but don't tend to be the ones which win the awards.

There are a lot of contributory factors to discrimination apart from the obvious. The Oscar for Best Actor goes to the lead actor in one of the year's big films. If every lead in every film happens to be white, no surprise that the Oscar goes to a white man. Yes, it's not straightforward discrimination because there was no ethnic minority candidate, but the discrimination inherent in the system is the reason why only white candidates were available.

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by Jango
If an award ceremony is stated as being for ethnic actors, or British artists, wouldn't it be a bit superfluous to have to keep adding that proviso for each individual award?

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Agreed. The EMMAs make no bones about the fact that they are there to recognise the achievements of people from non-white backgrounds in the same way as the Brits make it clear that they are there to recognise achievements in the British phonographic industry first and foremost.

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by KieranFrost
I feel, above all, the Emma's emphasis the difference in skin colour, one that shouldn't be there.

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No, of course it shouldn't be there. But it is. The world has moved in the right direction over the last quarter of a century but that doesn't mean that discrimination, against people from non-white backgrounds, against women, against gay people, against disabled people, does not exist. It may not be as overt as it once was, but scratch the surface and it's there, although often in a more subtle (and insidious) form. To take an example from gender relations, women no longer have to resign from their jobs when they become pregnant as they once did. But I look at all the couples I know with children and the person who has had to make the most sacrifices in terms of their career and leisure activities is still the woman. There's no obvious discrimination to stop women having a career and a family. It's just still much harder for them than it is for men as a general rule. I worry that the slow progression towards true equality for all is being seriously harmed by people who mistakenly believe that all the battles have been won and therefore that those of us who are still campaigning for equality are trying to insitute some kind of dictatorship of reverse discrimination.

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by KieranFrost
Most influencial sports personality, whether you like it or not, is David Beckham

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My opinion of David Beckham is unsuitable for a family friendly site Suffice it to say that I think there were a lot of people who were better suited to being Sports Personality of the Year than he was.

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by White Hart
Wow, Kieran, I didn't realise you were in charge of all these award ceremonies! We are honoured

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Well, it's a hobbey really, but I am very gifted

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by White Hart
Can you name anyone from an ethnic minority who got a lead role in a major 'serious' Hollywood film when it wasn't a stipulation of the script that the character was black or Asian or whatever? As you have pointed out yourself, the majority of well-known black Hollywood actors have made their names in action/genre movies, which may be big box-office success but don't tend to be the ones which win the awards.

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I agree with that, often if the script doesn't state it, few films feature minorities, but that's not the fault of the awards. They take the big films and give awards accordingly, not choose who is in the films.

But at the same time, I wouldn't count Hollywood as racists. Women who reach a certain age also find roles hard to get, but it's due to what Hollywood thinks people want, not down to disliking anyone of colour. But off the top of my head, I can honestly say I can't think of a film to feature a minority in the lead in a box office serious role. Again, not the fault of the awards.

What do you class as a box office serious role?

I agree with the fact that there is an element of discrimination in casting films but IMHO I think that there shouldn`t be a need for separate awards because evryone should be catered for by one. If there was no racism on either side then there wouldn`t be a need for separate awards but the fact that there are seperate awards demonstrates that unfortunatly we still have racial inequality.

I know what I`m trying to say but I cant word it properly (which bodes well for my Lit exam) but thats basically my thoughts(ish)

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by Jango
If an award ceremony is stated as being for ethnic actors, or British artists, wouldn't it be a bit superfluous to have to keep adding that proviso for each individual award?

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Totally agree.

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by KieranFrost
But at the same time, I wouldn't count Hollywood as racists. Women who reach a certain age also find roles hard to get, but it's due to what Hollywood thinks people want, not down to disliking anyone of colour. But off the top of my head, I can honestly say I can't think of a film to feature a minority in the lead in a box office serious role. Again, not the fault of the awards.

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The EMMAs aren't there because this or that is racist. It isn't about whether the Oscars are racist. It is purely about giving Black and Asian issues (not exclusively people, though) a higher profile. It doesn't matter if the problem is other awards, Hollywood producers or market research. Fact is there is a discrepancy of opportunity and the EMMAs wish to highlight this and promote highly talented individuals. And let’s not give the impression this is a set of movie awards. There are awards for TV, 'Arts', Journalism, Public Figures and Business. This isn't about 'we're better than you', it's about 'look at all this talent'.

I really don't see what there is to get upset about.

Anyone reading this thread who wants some more details to help make their own mind up should check out www.emma.uk.com

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by KieranFrost
But at the same time, I wouldn't count Hollywood as racists. Women who reach a certain age also find roles hard to get, but it's due to what Hollywood thinks people want, not down to disliking anyone of colour.

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Well, of course. Hollywood is in the business of making money and as such is never going to be at the cutting edge of pushing back prejudice and discrimination. The Emmas don't exist because the Oscars are racist but because at the moment most people from ethnic minority backgrounds don't have the opportunity that white people do to be in the position to win Oscars, or the Booker Prize, or the CBI awards.

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by Eve
If there was no racism on either side then there wouldn`t be a need for separate awards but the fact that there are seperate awards demonstrates that unfortunatly we still have racial inequality.

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Exactly.

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by KieranFrost
But at the same time, I wouldn't count Hollywood as racists.

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Well, no. I don't think Hollywood cares one way or another about the issue, except in as far as it affects their image and/or the amount of money they make. Still, I do wonder if you think the fact that the Oscars have a separate category for best foreign language film is racist...

Thought of a very plausable reason why many major films of a 'serious' block-buster, don't feature many African Americans or Italians and so on. Many of the films are based on novels or on a factual person's life. Obviously Elizabeth couldn't be played by someone of colour, it's not true to history. Also, in Lord of the Rings (I saw it again today, it's SSSOOOO good) none of the characters are black, because that's not how they were written.

Yes this isn't directly related to the Emma's, but it offers a plausable reason why many people could feel discriminated, the roles aren't there because they're based on history or a novel, therefore it's not about racism, it's about creating the atmosphere.

The last five Oscar Winning films for 'Best Picture' were -

1) A Beautiful Mind, factual, characters must be white
2) Gladiator, fiction, but no African American would have been made a Roman General
3) American Beauty, commenting on middle class American society, i.e white society
4) Shakespear in Love, he was obviosuly white, as was most of London and Britain at the time
5) Titanic, factualish, most coming across were white, certainly Kate Whinslet's character had to be white, because she was nobility.

The point is, yes Hollywood could be seen as not offering equal roles and I agree, there aren't BUT Hollywood doesn't care about skin colour, they care about money and lots of it. Historical or films based on a novel sell.

Hope some of that made sense

The point is, yes Hollywood could be seen as not offering equal roles and I agree, there aren't BUT Hollywood doesn't care about skin colour, they care about money and lots of it. Historical or films based on a novel sell.

That is not true! Racism is about people not considering other stories. People are conditioned to ignore other peoples stories, especialy if those writers are not people they know or are familiar with. The united states is full of stories of other peoples lives, if there was any country in the world with stories from other ethnic groups it would be America. We are the so-called melting pot.Yet we ignore Black, hispanic, and asian stories!!!!

Prevailing thought in Hollywood is that Black Actors are not marketable over seas. They say that time and time again, (I know as I am a filmmaker getting my MBA at the momemt) My Instructor tells me that black actors will not do well in another country. So I did my reasearch and found that the few movies with black male leads,(we are talking a miniscule amount) and the few movies with major black supporting cast, (again an extremely tiny amount) are 40% of the top 20 grossing films the world has ever seen!!!

Here is an example of how crazy my instructor sounds, if out of 1 million films made in the univeres, .01 percent have black people in them and they become 40% of the top 20 grossing films in the world, them the world does not mind seeing black people on the silver screen, or buying their DVDs.

This is a fact, so why are white producers still saying the same tired line! They are so racist they can't see the truth even though it is in front of their faces.

Can you name he top 20 grossing films in the world? You will be surprised to see how many black people are loved around the world!

And the award for "Resurrecting the oldest thread" goes to...