As a non-smoker you would think I'd be all for a ban but in all honesty I'm just not that bothered. If people want to smoke then thats their perogative...there are situations where I think it's inappropriate to smoke(while eating a meal for one) but I think that most smokers know where/when it's acceptable to spark up.

According to something I read about the ban in NYC it caused a lot of business' to close down because of the no smoking rule which can only be a bad thing for smokers and non-smokers alike.

Provide suitably spacious smoking and non smoking sections in every establishment, and ensure the ventilation is such that no smoke filters through into the non-smokers' section.

I'm a non-smoker, but this fanatical American-inspired anti-smoking bandwaggon is certainly not something I'm going to be jumping on anytime soon.

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by Milky
According to something I read about the ban in NYC it caused a lot of business' to close down because of the no smoking rule which can only be a bad thing for smokers and non-smokers alike.

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As I'm literally just back from NYC (T21 first place of call ) from what I saw it's working well. People are still crowding into the resataurants, bars & clubs and then standing outside for a cigarette. I never even noticed this until the morning after our first night out ( ) when I woke up still smelling nice. I had to ask Yvonne if people weren't smoking. The next few nights/days I noticed this myself. Noone seems that bothered and it was great to be able to not choke yourself half to death when entering a room (especially as I'm gravelly sore throat girl anyway )

*Badly constructed sentences but I'm jet lagged - Yvonne will type it more clearer *

As a smoker then I of course feel that when I got out in the evening day etc for a meal or a drink that I should be able to smoke as well, I do however also hate waking up in the morning smelling (even more so than normal) of smoke and I also find that my throat hurts if I have been in a very smoket atmosphere. I do however believe that an all out ban would be wrong, if an establishment feels that it wants to cater for smokers then it should be allowed to do so, I personally feel that there is nothing worse than seeing people/staff etc standing outside smoking.

Surely to ban smoking is an act of discrimination?

hm... difficult one this. On the one hand, yes, a ban is probably discriminatory (not that I know much about this sort of thing). On the other, I find smoking intrusive - as a non-smoker, I have absolutely no control over whether or not I breathe in smoke. Unless perhaps I choose not to breathe at all, which I'm not sure is an option... I'm all for individual choice, but in my personal (and deeply humble) opinion, smoking fits in the same category as people who play *really* loud music from cars or something - I am forced to breathe in smoke/listen to the loud music whether I want to or not; not fair, surely?

And even no-smoking sections don't really work, as smoke drifts. I remember an incident in a cafe where some people were smoking in the non-smoking section - a chap asked them if they'd mind not doing so, as it was no smoking section. They got up, moved to just underneath/slightly beyond the dividing sign, and amused themselves oh-so-much by blowing the smoke over to our side of the sign Am not trying to generalise - this was these particular people being yobbish. But air circulates, and the smoke does drift, in the same way as the little iodine crystals in our chem experiments would eventually fill up the whole jar.

I know my little ramblings are disjointed - I'm a bit frazzled today - but I think my basic thing is this: to smoke or not to smoke may be an individual's choice, but when they light up, everyone has to breathe it in to some extent. I don't like breathing in smoke, especially as I have bronchitis atm and it doesn't help. Gak.

I have probably offended a million people now, so I shall run away and hide. And maybe not breathe at all next time I leave my cocoon

Another thing to think about is the people working in bars and cafes, who are there longer than any of the customers, every day.

However, I seen plenty of bars and cafes in this country already which ask for no smoking at the counters to protect the staff, while allowing smoking in other designated areas.

Having been on both sides of the debate (as a previously non-smoking member of bar staff in a club and as a smoker) I can see why non-smokers may want a ban on smoking in public places. However, many smokers may find being in a non-smoking environment for an extended period (possibly all night in the case of clubs) extremely difficult. Although I know how unpleasant it can be to be behind a bar with people smoking constantly a short distance away, I think that Wetherspoons pubs probably have the best policy. Smoking within 3 feet of the bar and in the designated restaurant areas is banned, but allowed elsewhere.

During the recent debate about banning smoking in pubs, publicans themselves were shown to be heavily opposed. They state that after the smoking ban came into force in NYC, businesses such as cafes, bars and clubs lost up to 40% of their trade, as smokers (and often their non-smoking friends and partners) voted with their feet, causing some small businesses to close with serious financial difficulty.

Unless the government is seriously contemplating making smoking illegal, I think it's unlikely that these sort of blanket bans can be enforced.

Let's not forget that smoking is already prohibited in most taxis, on planes, on buses, trains and in all tube stations. There are several fast-food chains that have introduced smoking bans and I know of at least one indoor shopping where smoking is prohibited throughout (even in restaurant areas).

If businesses wish to introduce bans on their premises, fine - let them do that. But enforcing it on businesses who don't want it is unfair both to them, and their smoker customers.

My office became completely smoke free a couple of years ago. This now means that rather than spending 5 minutes in a nearby smoking room, smokers now have to put on a coat, take a lift up to 5 floors down and stand outside, where they become unreachable for the duration of their cigarette break. Aside from the extra lost hours, it looks unpleasant and unprofessional to have workers huddled in groups outside the building's entrance, as well as being extremely uncomfortable during bad weather.

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by Demona
Another thing to think about is the people working in bars and cafes, who are there longer than any of the customers, every day.

However, I seen plenty of bars and cafes in this country already which ask for no smoking at the counters to protect the staff, while allowing smoking in other designated areas.

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A bizzare consequence of this is that certain coffee shops in a certain liberal leaning European country are facing a ban on smoking for the staff's health. For some reason, however, the staff have started a campign for the government to disregard their smoke-free wellbeing.

Well it was only a matter of time before I posted in this thread

As some of you may know I'm very much anti smoking in public places. There are so many times when I've come home from a bar with my hair and clothes stinking of smoke, my eyes and throat sore, thinking it could all be avoided if a few people had either the willpower or consideration to hang on for a while until they're in a place where they're only poisoning themselves. Then the following day I usually calm down a bit

To be honest, I don't think the rights and wrongs of a ban are really the issue, but more the sheer number of smokers that there are and hence the resultant difficulty in enforcing a ban. But I think after teething troubles, bans can work. Having been to California it was so nice to go into a bar and firstly, not see any teenagers and secondly, be able to see the other end of the bar without having to strain my eyes through a thin fog. I'm sure a lot of publicans here would be against a ban. Short term monetary concerns will always feature ahead of long term health issues, especially when in many cases it's the long term health of the minimum wage youngsters who are pulling the pints, and not the landlords, which is at stake.

I also disagree with people who hide behind the human rights banner. 'It's our human right to smoke where we want'. How much of a negative effect on other people does something have to have before it *stops* being a human right?

I agree with Kate that smoking rooms are a sensible idea. If they're well ventilated then they're not a problem at all. I'm not against people smoking at all, as long as they're not affecting non-smokers

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by Teresa
*Badly constructed sentences but I'm jet lagged - Yvonne will type it more clearer *

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And as if by magic...

In the last 30 months I've been to three 'non-smoking cities' (Sydney, LA and most recently New York) and can confirm that there are still hundreds of cafes, bars, pubs and clubs in business. People still go out to drink, to eat, to chat and to socialise, the streets are not deserted because the smoking public have chosen to smoke at home and the local economy is not collapsing.

The New York public smoking ban is apparently a relatively new one. There are still banners, adverts, posters etc advocating the ban with the slogan "It didn't happen then. It won't happen now" answering arguments such as "If they stop smoking in shops, people will stop buying stuff", "If they stop smoking in clubs, people will stop going out" and other typical (idiotic) knee jerk reactions.

Yes, it is the right of every person to smoke or drink if they want to. The difference is that when someone sat next to me is enjoying a pint I'm not forced to help him drink it, but when he lights up a cigarette I have no choice but to breathe the smoke he produces.

It is MY right to NOT smoke.

Designated non-smoking areas don't work. Plain and simple. It was a crap compromise that (in my opinion) failed completely. If its cold enough to make standing outside while smoking uncomfortable, you'll have brought a coat - use it. Yes, it may look bad while people are standing outside with fags in their hands, but on the other hand, it also makes the bar/club/whatever look busy and could attract passing trade.

The argument of leaving the decision up to the individual business is one worth considering... until you take into account that the proprietors who choose to do so would be shooting themselves in the foot.

If the average smoker cannot manage an evening without a cigarette (and finds the prospect of standing outside for five minutes too traumatic) then tough. I'm sick of coming home smelling of other people's smoke, of the stench that clings to my clothes and hair. I'm sick of waking up with sore eyes and a sensitive throat, and I'm sick of the "its my right to smoke" argument.

It's my right to pass gas when I need to, but I don't climb up on the table and do it in your face because (however comical) it is unpleasant and inconsiderate.

I'm done for now, but I may be back

I certainly don't have a problem with stepping outside of places for a cigarette. Or even just not having one. I survive at work, no reason why it can't be done elsewhere (Although we get to smoek in the office if certain circumstances )

I'm still polite when it comes to it though, wether I'm with another smoke or not, even if smoke does get anywhere near them, I still try to wave it outta their face or whatever.

I agree with Yvonne's comments 100%.

What particularly annoys me (apart from coming home reeking of smoke) are those inconsiderate smokers who don't seem to care that their pollution is being blown straight at you. I keep telling myself I should carry a water pistol for just those occasions. Though whether I target the cigarette or the smoker has yet to be decided.

To be honest from this thread it tends to be more the people who dont smoke getting all het up about smoking rather than the people who do saying "I have a right to smoke" which suprises me as the thread is about smoking being banned (you would think the smokers would be up in arms), I think that the majority of smokers are considerate, after all we are the ones (bar the very rare few) that don't smoke in a non smoking area, dont smoke on planes, buses, trains, tubes and cinemas, what we do do is smoke in places we are allowed to, if I go somewhere I can't smoke I just dont smoke likewise if I go somewhere I can smoke I do. Imagine if they suddenly stopped you being able to use your mobile phone apart from at home, not a great example I admit and quiet a few places now do ask you not to have them switched on, but if there was a world wide blanket ban on using a mobile phone in public most people would be pretty peeved, I think us smokers take the fact we get banned from smoking in numerous places quiet well really.

Just because I smoke doesn't mean I like smokey atmospheres, doesnt mean I dont hate the fact my clothes stink when I've been in a very smokey pub, doesnt mean I dont get a sore throat and stingy eyes. I smoke because I enjoy it pure and simple, and if they banned smoking from all public places I would still smoke just at home (I dont go out that much anyways )

Of course, the worst pollutant by far, that everyrone is exposed to on a daily basis, is exhaust fumes.

I would argue that we are more likely to suffer long term health problems as a result of that than from passive smoking.

(Edited by Whistler 30/10/2003 13:56)

I have to say that my views tally with what Yvonne has said.

And I'm going to take this opportunity to have a rant about smokers on my train in teh morning. They don't smoke on the train coz its not allowed, but the nanosecond they get off the train they stop (so they get in the way of everyone else who is trying to get off) and then spark up blowing teh smoke over their shoulders into the faces of everyone behind them. Would it really hurt to wait two more minutes to get outside of the station?!?

Ahem. Rant over

(Edited by Sydney 31/10/2003 09:45)

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by Sange
... dont smoke on planes, ...

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I think you get arrested if you do.

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...Imagine if they suddenly stopped you being able to use your mobile phone apart from at home...

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A reminder for all you car driving mobile fanatics. As of 1st December it will be illegal to use a phone (hands free or not) when driving.
Fines £30-£1000 and 3 Points

I'm torn on this one.

On the one hand, i hate smoking with a passion, hate coming home after a night out stinking (i used to have to shower it off, or it made me feel really sick, though i'm a bit less sensitive these days). I've never even tried a fag, as i find just the concept of drawing crap into my lungs makes me gag, and thats how i feel when its blown my way (though smokers i know are more considerate than that)

But, i feel that banning something just because i don't like it, is a rather kneejerk reaction. It seems wrong. For instance, i am exceedingly afraid of fireworks. I don't go out at night on my own at this time of year, as i need someone there when i jump or flinch, and i get really nervous. But an outright ban on selling them to kids (which i heard discussed somewhere the other day) would be wrong. I'm not entirely sure the cases are comparable, this is me argueing on the fly here.

I guess in these cases it comes down to me hoping that people can use these things sensibly. That smokers can respect me, and kids wont throw fireworks down the street (unlike the little swine doing so at half one last night outside my house). I'm not usually an optimist, so i'm a little surprised to find myself here.

Hmmm. On reading this over i'm remembering why i don't joing the argument threads on here. Once the arguement hits the page it doesn't sound like it did in my head. Blah.

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by Vinnie
(quotes)
A reminder for all you car driving mobile fanatics. As of 1st December it will be illegal to use a phone (hands free or not) when driving.
Fines £30-£1000 and 3 Points

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Actually, it's only holding the handset. I know because Capital Radio is giving away hands-free kits this week

Oh, the irony...

I have to smoke for the part I'm playing in my next play in a fortnight!!

Just to amuse you smokers out there