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by lil_miss
Why is there going to be a charge for them if they arer compulsory? As i dittoed earlier, i'm quite keen on them, but not on having a charge for them. not every can afford to dish out £35 for something like that.

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If you make them "free" of charge where do you think the money comes from? If you would pay taxes you would pay for them anyways. They cost money to make (someone has to get the biometric info from you digitalize it and send it out to be made into a special card and it's send back to you) they don't grow you trees (and even than the owner of the tree is intitled to compensation )

And guess what a large part of the people that actually pay taxes already have a drivers license or a passport (or both!) So why would all those tax payers need to pay "your" card? They already paid for their own!

If you already bought a way of identification (read new drivers license / passport) you won't need one. They are phased in over a pretty long period so you would still get a good use out of your current passport / drivers license which you will have to replace anyways in 10 years and "pay" for. So no problem there I would say.

A drivers license is compulsary if you want to drive and a passport is compulsary if you want to travel. And now it becomes compulsary that you can identify yourself in a secure manner. Which doesn't only apply to terrorisme but also to effective local law enforcement.

And guess what, that will cost you 35 quid for 10 years of happy usage (35 / (365 * 10) = < 1p a day) if you don't already have a means to do so (which most people do). Well if it helps only a little bit to make things safer I'm sure that it's worth 1p a day

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by Chambler
(quotes)
A drivers license is compulsary if you want to drive and a passport is compulsary if you want to travel. And now it becomes compulsary that you can identify yourself in a secure manner.

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Its my choice if I want to drive, its my choice if I want to travel, and to be honest other than that I have no reason to identify myself.

What are they going to do when someone refuses to have a card are they going to lock them up, thats when we start having riots on the streets.

The goverment knows to much about us already without the biometric data (wonder if they will want to know your religion, political affiliations next) do you really want them to know your innermost secrets.

I have SO many problems with these ID cards. I keep having visions of 1984, Enemy of the State, and Minority Report. Yes, before somebody points this out to me, they are fictional, but parts of them are slowly, but surely coming true.
As Spike said to me the other say, what about when someone hacks into the system and starts stalking celebrities? It would be very simple once they find a way into the system, and they would eventually.
Also, I don't like the fact that my kids won't be able to get into a 15 when they're 14, or pay a kids fare on a bus. It's the little things like this that really annoy me. That when asked to proove your age, you'd actually HAVE to.
I find the whole ID card issue kinda scary. I will be very angry if they go through. I think I'm gonna go write a letter to my MP
And I hate the whole 'oh it'll stop terroism' bit, it hasn't, can't and won't. Theses people will always find a way. It's just an excuse for the cards to go through.

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by Acker
As Spike said to me the other say, what about when someone hacks into the system and starts stalking celebrities?

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*Giggle* Bless Spike. He's our very own Avid Merrion in the making

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by Byron
(quotes)
And who decicides who's "innocent" and "guilty"?

The government, that's who.

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No, that would be a jury.

You'll find that a lot of people already have ID cards at work. I have to walk around with a photo ID all day.
The only people to have anything to hide are criminals and anti-authoritives who just like to disagree with whoever is in charge.

You know, 64 years ago informative ID cards and detailed "confidential" records - with way less info that what the government are proposing - made it very easy for millions of people to be rounded up and "re-located".
The British and american governments are proving all those fanatically paranoid mountain men militia freaks to be right...
If thing keep progressing as they have I'll be burning my IDs & fingerprints and moving into the mountains.
Being from Norway that's an option.
I pity the english...where are you gonna go?

(Edited by Wesley 29/04/2004 10:25)

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by Vinnie
The only people to have anything to hide are criminals and anti-authoritives who just like to disagree with whoever is in charge.

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And what exactly is wrong with disagreeing with who's in charge?

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by lil_miss
Why is there going to be a charge for them if they arer compulsory? As i dittoed earlier, i'm quite keen on them, but not on having a charge for them. not every can afford to dish out £35 for something like that.

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Ditto, bit peeved about that

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by In a State of Dan
(quotes)

And what exactly is wrong with disagreeing with who's in charge?

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There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with who's in charge, when there's a reason.
It's the people who disagree 'because they are in charge' just for the sake of it.

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by Vinnie
anti-authoritives who just like to disagree with whoever is in charge.

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Yeah that would be Byron

*snigger*

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by JtB
1 quid is too expensive IMO

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And that's a ditto from me!

But overall, as usual, I'm pretty much on the fence on this one... (well, a nice big wall, anyways; sitting on fences hurts! )

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by Vinnie
(quotes)
It's the people who disagree 'because they are in charge' just for the sake of it.

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Has it not crossed you mind that I might be suspcious of the people "in charge", whoever they are, not "for the sake of it" but because they have a record of trampling over people's civil rights whenever it suits them?

Dismissing all your opponents as criminals and anti-authoritarians says far more about you than it does them.

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by Vinnie
(quotes)

There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with who's in charge, when there's a reason.

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I'm sure the majority of people in the country have had cause to disagree with Goverment a many a time.

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by In a State of Dan
(quotes)

And what exactly is wrong with disagreeing with who's in charge?

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Ditto. I believe the smart money distrusts Darth Blunkett on principle.

'Principle: [n] a basic generalization that is accepted as true and that can be used as a basis for reasoning or conduct'

I don't have a problem with it really, I think it's better in some ways to know who's who.

I've just sat and read this thread from top to bottom and can't believe some of the predictable kneejerk reactions this proposal is getting. At one point I hoped a few replies were sarcastic, but I fear they weren't.

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by Acker
Also, I don't like the fact that my kids won't be able to get into a 15 when they're 14, or pay a kids fare on a bus. It's the little things like this that really annoy me. That when asked to proove your age, you'd actually HAVE to.

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Sorry, but am I the only one who thinks 15 certificates are there for a reason?? Using the argument "it'll stop us breaking the law" as amunition against ID cards borders on ridiculous, you may aswell complain that it'd make your purse bulge unattractively.

Some people on this thread spend too much time watching SciFi and writing consipracy theories and not enough time in the real world.

2 dimensional baaaaaad, 3 dimensional goooood.

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by Yvonne
Some people on this thread spend too much time watching SciFi and writing consipracy theories and not enough time in the real world.

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Really why dont you go by amnesty international and see how many people 'dissapear' from various countrys in the world due to their political beliefs . Information against individuals is misused all the time, the goverment lies and decieves us all the time should we trust them no.

Hey Byron bet you never thought id be championing civil rights

(Edited by JtB 03/05/2004 16:20)

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by Yvonne
Some people on this thread spend too much time watching SciFi and writing consipracy theories and not enough time in the real world.

2 dimensional baaaaaad, 3 dimensional goooood.

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Hear hear

15 and 18 certificates are baaaddd, we need 15a and 18a. Combining that with your ID cards it would allow your parents to put a note on the card saying that they give permission for you to watch Xa certificated films