Erm, no, Owen is going down hill and fast. He's not the only one whos been setting up the goals and he's missed quite alot himself.

I actually agree with Milky. While he's not the same player who terrorised defences like he did in France '98, he quietly went about setting up the goals in the Croatia game (how accurate was that pass to Roomey for his second goal) and even almost scored himself a couple of times. So he certainly improved over the France game.

Remember it's a team sport and not just about that 'fit bloke' who hit the back of the net.

It only takes him to score one goal to get his confidence back. Look what happened to Scholes after he scored. He was a different player.

At the end of the day, who gives a flying smeg who's scoring? Let's just be grateful that England are the highest scorers in the tournament so far and be happy.

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by Milky
Have you been watching the same player?? Who set up both of Rooney's goals against Croatia and also had a hand in the Scholes goal? He's creating the space for Rooney to work in and his runs cause defences a lot of problems. He's not a prolific goal scorer which is his only downfall. I think he needs a goal just to get his scoring boots working in this tourny.

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Yeah, I have been watching the same player, there are far better players to pick rather than Mr go-it-alone Owen, only one of the goals was a purposeful setup, the others were more luck from his own failed attempts, certainly the Scholes goal was. He's an opportunist player like Shearer, hanging somewhere near the opposition goal waiting for an easy cross or fumble. To my mind Neville, Gerard, Lampard Cole, and Beckham have had far more to so with the sucesses than Owen has.

Numerious football commentators have also reached the same conclusion, and they're far more qualified than any of us to judge.

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by Whistler
Remember it's a team sport and not just about that 'fit bloke' who hit the back of the net.

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Yes, I know that, and the fact that it's a team sport is exact reason why I don't rate players like Owen and Shearer.

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by Stoo
Numerous football commentators have also reached the same conclusion, and they're far more qualified than any of us to judge.

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But the reason the commentators are down on Owen just now is because he's not living up to the tag they placed on them after France 02. I still say that he's played well so far.

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by Stoo
Yes, I know that, and the fact that it's a team sport is exact reason why I don't rate players like Owen and Shearer.

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I don't understand how you can't rate Shearer? He's one of England's best ever strikers with a record to match. His goals per game ratio is the highest of all current England strikers(perhaps Rooney is now eclipsing him but I'm not entirely sure) and he always seems to have a good game for England. Couple that with the fact he's won the Premiership with an unfashionable club thanks to his goals(Blackburn)and he's helped Newcastle to a position above their level and he seems to be a great player.

So, Owen wasn't being a team player when he set up the goals scored by Rooney then? Isn't that being a 'team player'?

I remember before Euro '96 all the stick that Shearer got because he'd had a run without scoring. All the press and fans were on his back saying he wasn't the same player anymore. Then, as soon as he scored against Switzerland, everyone was back on the Shearer Bandwagon again.

Let's hope the Owen detractors have the power of their convictions, and stick with their opinions, should Owen start scoring again.

(Edited by Whistler 23/06/2004 13:56)

Of course, if you 'don't normally watch footy', as Stoo said at the top of the thread, how are you in a position to rate players like Shearer and Owen?

Sorry for having an opinion.

(Edited by Stoo 23/06/2004 15:59)

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by Stoo
Sorry for having an opinion.

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So you should be

I don't follow football at all either, but i've seen England play so far, and i've not been more impressed with England than any other team, i've just been extremely impressed with the high level of fitness and skill with which all the players in the tournament seem to play.

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by Stoo
Sorry for having an opinion.

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Hey opinions are like bums..everyones got one *shrug*

I love talking football, everyone has a different answer.

I think Owen was disappointing in the first 2 games but was a huge improvement in the Croatia game. He still looks a little short on confidence though and a goal will do him wonders.
Shearer is an amazing player IMO.
Interesting comment on how the press built up Owen in France 98 and are now knocking him. I hope the same doesn't happen to Rooney - he's only 18 and can't possibly play superbly every game. ( I also have a horrible feeling he may get sent off in a game at some point) I hope the press don't crucify him when/if it happens.

Anyway with the Italians out last night let's hope the Germans go tonight.

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by Milky

Hey opinions are like bums..everyones got one *shrug*

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Actually, not everyone has got a bum. i saw this thing a year or two back where this woman had had this really terrible accident and basicall her bum was torn off and she lost both her legs and her anus.

Deviation much.

I personally think England are a good team, not a great team, but a good team. i used to really follow football, but haven't done so so much over the last two years or so, so i'm not up on all the players, but i do know that Owen is a good player and Rooney seems to be great, and i rate them both highly and they contribute greatly to making the team better.

I think Owen's doing okay. His all round play was good against Croatia. He was just lacking the bit of confidence he needed to put away the couple of chances that he had. Having watched him week in, week out for the last 7 years, I know that every time he has one of these droughts he always comes out on the other side with a glut of goals.

Only in England could our team go through to the quarter finals as top scorers, and the media complain about a player that isn't scoring

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by DJ Billy
Only in England could our team go through to the quarter finals as top scorers, and the media complain about a player that isn't scoring

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And some of the fans

I think its more of the fact that we were talking about all the players. Someone else picked up on it and made it an issue.

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by KaTiEStar
Erm, no, Owen is going down hill and fast. He's not the only one whos been setting up the goals and he's missed quite alot himself.

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Ditto, he even admits he's not playing his best.

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by Kneon Light
Anyway with the Italians out last night let's hope the Germans go tonight.

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Your wish is the Czech Republic's command!

So... looks like we're facing Sweden after Portugal before getting our revenge on France in the Final! [/cocky] (anyone who accuses me of jinxing them will get... I dunno, a raised eyebrow or something...)

It's a shame that the Germans got knocked out from the point of view that if we get past Portugal, I'd rather face a side that is consistantly average than a side that is occasionally brilliant (The Dutch).

Game tonight, being rather dubious and I don't want to watch it cos I think Portugal have been playing well... *fingers crossed*

OK any guesses on the score for tonight.

I'm going be bold and say 2-1 to England (but then it's a random figure as I've not seen Portugal play yet )

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by DJ Billy
It's a shame that the Germans got knocked out from the point of view that if we get past Portugal, I'd rather face a side that is consistantly average than a side that is occasionally brilliant (The Dutch).

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Your probably right but I just found it very funny!

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by Samphirette
OK any guesses on the score for tonight.

I'm going be bold and say 2-1 to England (but then it's a random figure as I've not seen Portugal play yet )

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Whatever I predict the opposite always happens - so I'll go for a 5-0 win for Portugal (and a Rooney sending off)