Tangent 21 - Mind if I smoke?

Posted by
Sydney

Posted on
19:55
Sep 06 2004

Mind if I smoke?

Just been watching BBC News 24 and they had a peice on a new smoking survey thats been carried out.

Apparently Four out of five people want the legal smoking age to be raised from 16 to 18

The main line people are taking against this seems to be that it will be difficult to enforce and is therefore not worth doing.

I disagree. The legal age limit for drinking in the UK is 18. You only have to wander through a city centre bus station on a saturday night to see that teens as young as 15/16 are drinking alcohol. I'll be almost everyone of teh people reading this who are aged over 18 have heard "Ere, will go to the shop for us" called after them when walking past an off licence.

The thing is... you rarely see 11/12 year olds drinking on the streets. However I see children on that age smoking all the time and that disgusts me.

I'm not against smoking, I used to smoke myself, I still do on occasion and I even sit in the smoking room at work on break at work. If an adult in full possession of the facts about the potential effects of smoking on their body wants to carry on then why not *shrug*

So, I wondered what other people thought about this, particularly the smokers who started while still at school and are still smoking now. Do you think it would have made a difference if it had been just that little bit harder to get hold of fags? Why did you start in the first place? or am I just turning into a fuddy duddy?

(Edited by Sydney 06/09/2004 19:55)

38 Replies and 7132 Views in Total. [ 1 2 ]

Maffrew In brightest day, in blackest night, no evil shall escape my sight...

Smoking disgusts me in a way that is perhaps irrational. I simply can't stand it.

Having said that, it's not surprising that i would be totally behind behind raising the limit to 18. It might be hard to enforce, but that's no reason not to do it.

When i was at school, the older kids used to buy cigarettes and sell them to the younger kids, as young as 11. If the 15/16 year olds have much more trouble getting them (if it was raised to 18, only the oldest looking 16 year olds would be able to get them), those really young kids won't be able to get hooked in by the older kids.

All for it.

Posted: 20:05 Sep 06 2004

Vinnie Just because you don't beleive in something, doesn't mean it's not true.

by Sydney
If an adult in full possession of the facts about the potential effects of smoking on their body wants to carry on then why not *shrug*

It's not just the effects on that person, it's the drain on the NHS coping with the after effects, which everyone else pays for, the second hand smoke and the effects that has on other people.

You see people smoking in cars but they all have the windows open to keep the smell out of the car.

Any house/car where the owner has been a smoker is worth less as a result.
You see people who can barely afford food for the children and yet can't survive without their fags. (Look at Nadia from BB5 she went nuts without her cigs.)

OK, Rant over. I think smoking should be banned totally.

Posted: 21:19 Sep 06 2004

Yally Don't kill anyone until we get back to you!

Hmmm...I haven't thought about this much, so I'm sure someone could easily change my mind. But my first reaction is the idea is the wrong way around - we ought to be lowering the drinking age. Most people I know started drinking at 16 (or younger) anyway. And I know it's a bit young, but if you can leave school and get married, I think you're old enough to make decisions over the drugs you put in your body. Instead of raising the age, it should just be harder to get hold of cigarettes and alcohol under the age of 16. IDing everyone who looks under 21 is the best way, but a lot of people don't bother. I guess you could fine anyone caught buying them for underage kids too. Dunno, like I say, haven't thought about it much....

On second thoughts though, drinking and smoking is so much more fun when you're underage....let's raise the age for both to 35!

Posted: 21:22 Sep 06 2004

Ethan You Rasclart!

I think this might be a good idea because it would possibly stop younger kids from getting hooked on it (hopefully IMO). It may also be hard to enforce, but that was why the photo ID card was brought out wasn't it?

Saying that though, I was well past 18 when I started properly (Ok, not that far lol), it'll be tricky, but personally I'm for it.

PS people blow the smoke out of the car not becasue of the smell, but cos they dont want the car to be totally filled with smoke then start choking

(Edited by Ethan 06/09/2004 21:44)

Posted: 21:43 Sep 06 2004

PictureOfFlowers "When things are at their darkest, it's a brave man that can kick back and party." - Lt. Tuck Pendleton, Innerspace

Being a non-smoker I'm another who's very predictably in the 'all for it' camp. I know quite a few adults who smoke but wish they didn't. I've seen them attempt to give up on a number of occasions, and to this day (as far as I'm aware) I don't know a single one who's succeeded. Maybe (although my faith has been radically reduced) if the legal age is increased it'll mean little kids can't get hold of it as easily and so they won't start smoking at such a young age. Then by the time they do have the chance to start maybe they'll have heard enough about it to think twice.

Or maybe it won't make any difference at all, but hey, I can dream...

Posted: 21:57 Sep 06 2004

Demona The London Underground is not a political movement.

There is a fairly major difference between tabacco products and alcohol, in that while both are bad for your body, alcohol also affects your behaviour short-term. The additional responsibility taken on with alcohol is knowing your limit and not getting to a point where you are in danger of being violent, or subjecting yourself to dangers beyond those inflicted purely by the substance.

That said, I'm fairly indifferent to raising the age at which one can smoke. As a rule, I'm not in favour of age-based laws, but I don't have it in me to get upset with this one. However, I did raise an eyebrow at the further suggestion of raising it to 21 - you can fight and die for your country, get married without permission, vote and raise children, but you're not mature enough to smoke?

Posted: 23:45 Sep 06 2004

Byron "Live. Grow stronger. Fight another day."

I'm all for anything that makes it more difficult for kids to get their hands on tobacco. The fact cigs are legal at all makes a nonsense of our drugs laws (they do more physical damage than pure heroin), so putting them on a par with alcohol is the least the government can do. Having them effectively available to school-kids strikes me (sorry) as grossly negligent.

(Edited by Byron 07/09/2004 00:53)

Posted: 00:52 Sep 07 2004

Chambler A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.

by Demona
but you're not mature enough to smoke?

Knowing what smoking does to you on the long and short term and the cost to the community and your direct surroundings I personally think that if you feel the need to start smoking at any age you are not mature enough. With all the information that is around why would someone want to start smoking if it wasn't for pressure from the surroundings......... and if you buckle under the pressure of your peers you are not mature enough

Posted: 09:24 Sep 07 2004

Whistler "I wonder wonder why the wonder falls. I wonder why the wonder falls on me. I wonder wonder why the wonder falls, with everything I touch and hear and see."

I agree with this whole-heartedly. I listened to Radio Five on the way to work the other day and one child they interviewed admitted that he and his friends even intimidated shop assistants to sell them cigarettes if at first they refused. Perhaps there's an argument to make it illegal for anyone under 18 to be in possession of cigarettes as well (and alcohol for that matter) just like it is for any controlled substance. The threat of prosecution may be the deterrent required. Or, at the very least, a police caution or reprimand that stays on record for a while ( as I can already hear people saying prosecutions would be unworkable, too heavy handed and a drain on the tax payer).

And, on the subject of alcohol, local shops to me have even started to refuse to sell alcohol to anyone under 21 unless they have proof of ID. So, perhaps the UK is not far from moving to US-style legislation. After all, some town centres have now banned the public drinking of booze because of how certain areas become no-go zones in the evenings because of binge drinking.

Anyway, I'm drifting off the point. To re-cap, a big 'yes' from me for raising the age of buying tobacco/cigarettes to 18 but with, perhaps, some sanction for being 'in possession' to help enforce the legislation.

(Edited by Whistler 07/09/2004 13:46)

Posted: 13:43 Sep 07 2004

Byron "Live. Grow stronger. Fight another day."

by Whistler
And, on the subject of alcohol, local shops to me have even started to refuse to sell alcohol to anyone under 21 unless they have proof of ID. So, perhaps the UK is not far from moving to US-style legislation.

I hope not. Even if you set aside the absurdity of being able to vote and join the army but not drink a beer, it'd drive our already excessive binge-culture underground like it has in the US, making it even harder to encourage responsible drinking.

Have to say I'm none to keen on giving the plods power to hassel every kid under 18 either. The responsbility's with the people who sell the drinks: seems rather self-defeating to prosecute people for breaking a law that's supposedly there to protect them!

Posted: 17:59 Sep 07 2004

MonSTeR No big eyes! No magic powers! No giant robots!

by Demona
However, I did raise an eyebrow at the further suggestion of raising it to 21 - you can fight and die for your country, get married without permission, vote and raise children, but you're not mature enough to smoke?

But would anyone who's actually mature enough to smoke actually smoke in the first place. knowing the dnagers and choosing to smoke anyway certainly doesn't strike me as a very mature thing to do

I'm like Maff, I have an strange andslightly inexplicable intolerance to being around smoke. It's why I don't really go to pubs, and the like.

Posted: 18:13 Sep 07 2004

bipolar "Aurgh! Arugh jeeez!! NO! NO NINA! BAD NINA!"

as a partial

smoker im up for it but im wondering why people keep coming back to the remark that if you smoke (while knowing the dangers) then you aint mature. there are dangers to everything but it doesnt stop us from doing them does that mean we're not mature enough? it's said smoking is on a different par to alcohol but like smoking in the long run there are bad effects too including alcoholism and liver damage being the most obvious.
(please dont forget that while passive drinking isnt a factor

it doesnt stop people from getting into cars and running down a bunch of non-smokers

)
no matter what the age-based laws there will always be a schmuck to buy underage kids alcohol and/or cigarettes and then there's always what's lying about at home that they can swipe. (i admit i've brought kids cigarettes for them but only because i got the impression they were gonna batter me if they didnt luckily this was a few years a go and have learnt to run faster since)

im not attacking im just asking questions.

Posted: 18:50 Sep 07 2004

Kate "Have you been gargling with bong water?!"

by Vinnie
(quotes)

It's not just the effects on that person, it's the drain on the NHS coping with the after effects, which everyone else pays for

Although I'm a smoker, I'm fully in favour of raising the age limit - however, just wanted to point out that with tax making up something like 90% (don't know the actual figure but a lot) of the total cost of cigarettes, a 20-a-day smoker has by pension age contributed something like 3 times the cost of any treatment they might require to the Government's coffers (no pun intended) purely by smoking - this does not include the taxes that smokers pay just like everyone else.

Perhaps this same argument could be applied to the drunks who take up all the time of both my local Police and the hospital A&E every bloody Saturday night.

</rant>

If they're not diverting cigarette duties to the health service, then where does it all go, I wonder.

Posted: 18:54 Sep 07 2004

JtB If someone gives you freedom it is not freedom, freedom is something you take for yourself.

by Byron
(quotes)
I hope not. Even if you set aside the absurdity of being able to vote and join the army but not drink a beer, it'd drive our already excessive binge-culture underground like it has in the US, making it even harder to encourage responsible drinking.

The 21 thing isnt saying you cant buy alky below 21 but if you look younger than 21 (its 30 in the states IIRC) then you have to provide ID which IS putting the onus on retailers to check.

I think its a change in the culture where drink and cigs are concerned.

Posted: 21:35 Sep 07 2004

MonSTeR No big eyes! No magic powers! No giant robots!

The mature comment thing I made comes from making an educated decision to do something that is so bad for your body despite despite the knowledge of the damage it does.

Everyone's seen the crap that gets deposited in your lungs, but the worse stuff is if you understand the chemical reactions that are taking place in the tissues of your body as a result.

I literally cannot understand when if folks know the possible outcomes, how they can decide that that risk can be worth it?

I'd urge all my friends to not to smoke, and all my enemies to start

Posted: 21:59 Sep 07 2004

MonSTeR No big eyes! No magic powers! No giant robots!

And as far as I recall, Kate's right, most smokers do pay in taxes for any NHS treatments they'd recieve.

But that's not a reason for you not to quit!!!!

Posted: 22:01 Sep 07 2004

Yally Don't kill anyone until we get back to you!

To me, like any drug, smoking ought to be a personal decision. We all know the side effects, both good and bad, by the time we're 16. Again, IDing anyone who looks under 21, would help prevent anyone under 16 from buying cigarettes (I've never bought kids cigarettes; the first time I was asked, I was 14 and the last time I must have been 18) - I just can't do it! Smoking IS a disgusting habit, but as long as you're considerate to those around you, I think that by the time you're 16 you're mature enough to decide to poison yourself or not - and if not by then, you never will be. Same with alcohol - I drank more responsibly when I was 16 than I do now. Still waiting for someone to change my mind though. Bleh, I'm a little bit

Posted: 23:37 Sep 07 2004

Byron "Live. Grow stronger. Fight another day."

by JtB
(quotes)

The 21 thing isnt saying you cant buy alky below 21 but if you look younger than 21 (its 30 in the states IIRC) then you have to provide ID which IS putting the onus on retailers to check.

I think its a change in the culture where drink and cigs are concerned.

Saw that bit, the post was responding to Whistler's comment about a move to US-style legislation which bans under-21s from drinking. (Well, it doesn't, it blackmails the States into banning it, but lets not get into that here!)

If he wasn't referring to that, I'm a little confused where America comes into it.

Posted: 01:00 Sep 08 2004

Byron "Live. Grow stronger. Fight another day."

by MonSTeR
And as far as I recall, Kate's right, most smokers do pay in taxes for any NHS treatments they'd recieve.

But that's not a reason for you not to quit!!!!

Off the top of my head, cost to the NHS in treating smoking related ilnesses is approximately Â£1 billion, but the tax revenue from ciggies is Â£9 billion.

Crude logic that doesn't factor in the use of non-fiscal NHS resources (how ever much cash you throw about, there's a finite number of doctors and nurses available) but it seems smoking does pay for itself nine times over.

Posted: 01:03 Sep 08 2004

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