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Well, both sides are right about Tony Blair
Posted: 13:45 Sep 16 2004
A hunting we will? No!
Today's front pages are filled with a tail-coated tag-team tackling pro-hunt protestors on the floor of the Commons while police give the crowd outside an idea of what it's like to go to the dogs. What's almost been forgotten in all this are the arguments for keeping fox-hunting.
Many pro-hunters say it's more humane than shooting the fox and leaving it to bleed to death. Anti-hunters say it terrorises the fox. Pro-hunters say there are many other forms of animal cruelty, like battery farming, that are far crueller that the government choose to ignore, and the ban's motivated by class prejudice. Anti-hunters say many working class people hunt, and it's an animal welfare issue after all. The only thing the two sides seem to agree on is the terrance-worthy chant from the crowd in Parliament Square: "Tony Blair's a wanker."
So who's right?
(Edited by Byron 16/09/2004 13:48)
Many pro-hunters say it's more humane than shooting the fox and leaving it to bleed to death. Anti-hunters say it terrorises the fox. Pro-hunters say there are many other forms of animal cruelty, like battery farming, that are far crueller that the government choose to ignore, and the ban's motivated by class prejudice. Anti-hunters say many working class people hunt, and it's an animal welfare issue after all. The only thing the two sides seem to agree on is the terrance-worthy chant from the crowd in Parliament Square: "Tony Blair's a wanker."
So who's right?
(Edited by Byron 16/09/2004 13:48)
27 Replies and 4033 Views in Total. [ 1 2 ]
im on the anti hunt side, always have been always will be. it needs to go the way of bear baiting, cock fighting and other medieval animal blood sports, all of which were 'fine traditions' of the UKs past, that hunting and hare coursing should join.
There afriad of losing jobs - the horse related jobs, the hound masters etc.. Then do dry hunting - same thing only hunt to a scent, not a living animal, get the same exercise, the same jobs will be used etc.
They feel by stopping hunting the Fox will take over, and other forms of control will be enforced. right, cos animal go breeding crazy, when theyre not hunted. we're the only advanced species to breed beyond our means (not including insects here). nature controls itself. And if farmers dont want their chickens etc harmed build better defenses, and stop killing off all the foxes natural prey!
they insist they only kill the weak, to control a healthy population..right.
so who are those guys who go out and find the young foxes, or strong dear to hunt, cos a hunt doesnt want to end to quickly...where's the 'sport' in that? no they actively find the young vunerable foxes around a year old, or strong dear, usually stags, to go after. And where is the sport in if your quarry manages to find a way to escape say into a burrow, its dug up and either torn to bits by the dogs or thrown back into the bushes to try and run away again. surely a 'fair' sport would be to let it go.but then whats fair about a 'blood' sport.
guess thats my pennys worth. over to the pro hunt, who certainly showed their true colours yesterday. savagery seems to be in their 'blood'well they certainly got a taste of their own medicine
(Edited by nemesis 17/09/2004 02:55)
There afriad of losing jobs - the horse related jobs, the hound masters etc.. Then do dry hunting - same thing only hunt to a scent, not a living animal, get the same exercise, the same jobs will be used etc.
They feel by stopping hunting the Fox will take over, and other forms of control will be enforced. right, cos animal go breeding crazy, when theyre not hunted. we're the only advanced species to breed beyond our means (not including insects here). nature controls itself. And if farmers dont want their chickens etc harmed build better defenses, and stop killing off all the foxes natural prey!
they insist they only kill the weak, to control a healthy population..right.
so who are those guys who go out and find the young foxes, or strong dear to hunt, cos a hunt doesnt want to end to quickly...where's the 'sport' in that? no they actively find the young vunerable foxes around a year old, or strong dear, usually stags, to go after. And where is the sport in if your quarry manages to find a way to escape say into a burrow, its dug up and either torn to bits by the dogs or thrown back into the bushes to try and run away again. surely a 'fair' sport would be to let it go.but then whats fair about a 'blood' sport.guess thats my pennys worth. over to the pro hunt, who certainly showed their true colours yesterday. savagery seems to be in their 'blood'well they certainly got a taste of their own medicine
(Edited by nemesis 17/09/2004 02:55)
Posted: 02:51 Sep 17 2004 
I'm very much against fox hunting.
One thing that has really annoyed me about the press coverage of all this however was references by police and press that the protest had been taken over by "football fans" and that is why it turned violent. As a football fan I find this offensive - the protest and violence had nothing to do with football so why drag it into it? The next time there is any trouble at a football match I fully expect the press to make amends by saying that the true fans had been infiltrated by fox hunters!
Bit off topic I know - sorry!
One thing that has really annoyed me about the press coverage of all this however was references by police and press that the protest had been taken over by "football fans" and that is why it turned violent. As a football fan I find this offensive - the protest and violence had nothing to do with football so why drag it into it? The next time there is any trouble at a football match I fully expect the press to make amends by saying that the true fans had been infiltrated by fox hunters!
Bit off topic I know - sorry!
Posted: 07:40 Sep 18 2004
I would say i'm more for hunting than against. But I don't want to make a decision about where my opinions lie, because as told by my friend who lives in the countryside "it's not up to the government who live in London to make decisions about rurual affairs"
I also believe that people ranting on about the cruelty of it for hours and hours should look at their lifestyle, e.g eating meat that was killed in an unhumane way, all the products that they use that has been tested on animals. It seems today that you can't avoid exploiting animals indirectly. I don't think that animals should be harmed, but when I see people who barely have enough money to live on, you can see why things like battery chickens are a good thing, producing large amounts of cheap eggs for people who can't afford any better.
To be honest I don't think that fox hunting will be banned for a long time. Just for the fact that so many powerful people in high places take part in foxhunting themselves.
I also believe that people ranting on about the cruelty of it for hours and hours should look at their lifestyle, e.g eating meat that was killed in an unhumane way, all the products that they use that has been tested on animals. It seems today that you can't avoid exploiting animals indirectly. I don't think that animals should be harmed, but when I see people who barely have enough money to live on, you can see why things like battery chickens are a good thing, producing large amounts of cheap eggs for people who can't afford any better.
To be honest I don't think that fox hunting will be banned for a long time. Just for the fact that so many powerful people in high places take part in foxhunting themselves.
Posted: 15:45 Sep 19 2004
There's a difference between hunting for food and hunting for fun. Obviously no one NEEDS to hunt for food anymore, but if you need to satisfy some kind of blood lust by going out and shooting pheasants, I don't have too much of a problem with that, because at least they're eaten. Hunting foxes is completely pointless (and it doesn't control the fox population). Yes, there are worse forms of cruelty out there, that ought to be tackled, but that doesn't mean we should ignore fox hunting. It's cruelty for the fun of it and there's no reason I can think of why it couldn't be replaced by drag hunting.
Posted: 16:42 Sep 19 2004 Ooh howsabout hunting football hooligans then? Arrest the yobs and if you find them guilty, give the dogs their scent and have them chased through the city centres?
by Kneon Light
I'm very much against fox hunting.
One thing that has really annoyed me about the press coverage of all this however was references by police and press that the protest had been taken over by "football fans" and that is why it turned violent. As a football fan I find this offensive - the protest and violence had nothing to do with football so why drag it into it? The next time there is any trouble at a football match I fully expect the press to make amends by saying that the true fans had been infiltrated by fox hunters!
Bit off topic I know - sorry!
You could make film about it starring Governer Schwartzenegger, but dub hs accent with some dodgy English lout's voice, and call it "The Running Yob"
Posted: 21:25 Sep 19 2004 mwahahahahahahahahahahahaha now that id watch!
by MonSTeR
(quotes)
Ooh howsabout hunting football hooligans then? Arrest the yobs and if you find them guilty, give the dogs their scent and have them chased through the city centres?
You could make film about it starring Governer Schwartzenegger, but dub hs accent with some dodgy English lout's voice, and call it "The Running Yob"
Posted: 02:10 Sep 20 2004
by Miss Corrupt
I would say i'm more for hunting than against. But I don't want to make a decision about where my opinions lie, because as told by my friend who lives in the countryside "it's not up to the government who live in London to make decisions about rurual affairs"
I also believe that people ranting on about the cruelty of it for hours and hours should look at their lifestyle, e.g eating meat that was killed in an unhumane way, all the products that they use that has been tested on animals. It seems today that you can't avoid exploiting animals indirectly. I don't think that animals should be harmed, but when I see people who barely have enough money to live on, you can see why things like battery chickens are a good thing, producing large amounts of cheap eggs for people who can't afford any better.
To be honest I don't think that fox hunting will be banned for a long time. Just for the fact that so many powerful people in high places take part in foxhunting themselves.
so we must ignore all forms of cruelty becuase there always more? great attitude.
Posted: 02:11 Sep 20 2004 
Just curious if they stop the fox hunting will they get like specialized teams that hunt them as the fox in the UK has no natural enemy so you will get a problem with the habitat supporting the population of foxes in a little while which will have it's impact in the surrounding area's.
Ooh and all in favour for the yob hunting idea btw
(Edited by Chambler 20/09/2004 07:36)
Ooh and all in favour for the yob hunting idea btw
(Edited by Chambler 20/09/2004 07:36)
Posted: 07:35 Sep 20 2004 No not at all. I'm just saying there are more pressing issues of animal cruelty than foxhunting, purely in my opinion. And I was pointing out it was very hypocritical for so many people who buy things which have been tested on animals or exploit animals, to then also turn round and say how against fox hunting there are. But thats just what I've seen from people I've spoken to about this issue.
by nemesis
so we must ignore all forms of cruelty becuase there always more? great attitude.
Posted: 19:16 Sep 20 2004 And in my opinion too.....
by Miss Corrupt
(quotes)
No not at all. I'm just saying there are more pressing issues of animal cruelty than foxhunting, purely in my opinion.
Posted: 19:57 Sep 20 2004 The fox has never had predators, apart from the wolf(guess what we hunted that to extinction in the UK..only a few places in Scotland has had them brought back). It is top of its food chain. In nature the top predator regulates itself, only breeding to support itself depending on its prey.
by Chambler
Just curious if they stop the fox hunting will they get like specialized teams that hunt them as the fox in the UK has no natural enemy so you will get a problem with the habitat supporting the population of foxes in a little while which will have it's impact in the surrounding area's.
Ooh and all in favour for the yob hunting idea btw
(Edited by Chambler 20/09/2004 07:36)
Posted: 15:00 Sep 21 2004 Animal testing im against..eating meat i wish i could stop doing (i eat RSPCA freedom foods and organic meat though-tried to be a veggy, but my health suffered).But hunting has NO benefit to mankind, except as a sport for blood thirsty people.
by Miss Corrupt
(quotes)
No not at all. I'm just saying there are more pressing issues of animal cruelty than foxhunting, purely in my opinion. And I was pointing out it was very hypocritical for so many people who buy things which have been tested on animals or exploit animals, to then also turn round and say how against fox hunting there are. But thats just what I've seen from people I've spoken to about this issue.
Posted: 15:03 Sep 21 2004 How do you know that it has no benefit? Do you have any scientific research or are you just basing this on your own thoughts/opinions? Personally I'm against fox-hunting, badger-baiting and the like but it amazes me the arguments that some people give. I thought the protests were absolutley ludicrous and did nothing to help the cause they were supposedly fighting for. I have to agree with Miss Corrupt, there are far worse things than fox hunting.
by nemesis
(quotes)
Animal testing im against..eating meat i wish i could stop doing (i eat RSPCA freedom foods and organic meat though-tried to be a veggy, but my health suffered).But hunting has NO benefit to mankind, except as a sport for blood thirsty people.
Posted: 15:32 Sep 21 2004
Ok this may sound a bit cliche, but my friend earns a bit of money from her chickens and runs an egg farm in her spare time. On coming back one day she came back to find all her chickens killed by foxes. Needless to say that evening she went out and shot the fox(es) that did it, and that was the end of that and she hasn't had any trouble since.
She killed in animal in the most humane way possible, unlike the fox who killed the chickens for sport, as it was blatantly obvious that it did not kill them all for food, as all the chickeny parts were still there.
People going around on horses slowly killing a fox and making it suffer slowly and getting enjoyment I do not agree with. People with gun licences whose livelihood is partly dependant on farmimg and keeping the numbers of pests (e.g foxes) down by hunting them down and then killing them is ok in my opinion. Much like rats, foxes carry diseases. Rats are animals too, and us putting traps down for them and them starving to death as they are trapped for hours, or being poisened as they are slowly burned from the inside is not humane. Yet people still do it if they need to and is affecting peoples livelihood (like an infestation in someones house). The rat thing is just an example, but you see my point.
She killed in animal in the most humane way possible, unlike the fox who killed the chickens for sport, as it was blatantly obvious that it did not kill them all for food, as all the chickeny parts were still there.
People going around on horses slowly killing a fox and making it suffer slowly and getting enjoyment I do not agree with. People with gun licences whose livelihood is partly dependant on farmimg and keeping the numbers of pests (e.g foxes) down by hunting them down and then killing them is ok in my opinion. Much like rats, foxes carry diseases. Rats are animals too, and us putting traps down for them and them starving to death as they are trapped for hours, or being poisened as they are slowly burned from the inside is not humane. Yet people still do it if they need to and is affecting peoples livelihood (like an infestation in someones house). The rat thing is just an example, but you see my point.
Posted: 18:07 Sep 21 2004
This isn't really all that relevant, but Miss Corrupt reminded me. I used to have 2 ducks and a few chickens. We got eggs from them, but really they were pets. So when a fox killed all of them in one night, we were pretty upset about it - as upset as we would be about a dead hamster or canary (probably not the same level as cat or dog I mean...). But I had no bad feelings towards the fox - it was just doing what was natural and it must have eaten them anyway because there we no remains except for a few feathers. But then, I suppose if I were making a living from it, I would have done something to get rid of the fox. Somehow I don't think that chasing it down with dogs would be the most humane option (no matter how much the people who do that would like to argue it).
Posted: 18:26 Sep 21 2004 Don't agree with that at all. Animals don't play sport. I'm no animal pschologist but I'm going to make a stab at this. Mr Fox is living his foxy life which consists of looking for food and having quality time with Mrs Fox. Mr & Mrs Fox probably move around a fair bit basically to find food and as they are disturbed by other outside influences(cars/walkers/new buildings). Food can sometimes get a bit scarce in the Fox household. One day Mr Fox comes across a load of walking KFC's. How long will they be there? Mr Fox ain't going to know that so he kills what he needs for that moment and for the short-term which he could go back later for. Then Mr Fox meets Mr Bullet and joins all the other foxes in Fox Heaven(take a left past dog heaven
by Miss Corrupt
She killed in animal in the most humane way possible, unlike the fox who killed the chickens for sport, as it was blatantly obvious that it did not kill them all for food, as all the chickeny parts were still there.
)I somehow doubt that the fox slaughtered a load of chickens then went off to tell his mates about it
Animals kill on instinct/training not for fun. I'm all for the quick death though. A bullet to the brain was far better for it than having 40 ponces ride around on horses shouting tally ho and killing it a piece at a time.
Posted: 18:28 Sep 21 2004
Hmm, well not being a farmer myself or having anything ever killed by foxes I can't really judge. I was just voicing my friends opinion on what she told me the next day. Still, the saying "and eye for an eye and we'll all be blind" is in my head at the moment.
Mr Foxy, sounds kinda kinky
Mr Foxy, sounds kinda kinky
Posted: 18:45 Sep 21 2004 Have you ever seen a cat play with a mouse? It's pure torture and it's certainly not for feeding at all (as I guess the food we give them is a lot tastier). It's just pure enjoyment for a cat. Slamming your claw into it than letting it go and just before it gets out of reach slam it again and pull it back until eventually the mouse dies....Same with little birds...
by Milky
Don't agree with that at all. Animals don't play sport. I'm no animal pschologist but I'm going to make a stab at this.
........
I somehow doubt that the fox slaughtered a load of chickens then went off to tell his mates about it
Normal pet dogs chasing rabbits in a field..... it's not like they have to do it for food and they will kill it but not eat it in most cases that i've seen.
Problem is the prey is there! We just don't want them to eat this specific prey as they are our egg & woolen sweater factories. So the enviroment can support loads of foxes we just don't want them to kill all our little factories
In nature the top predator regulates itself, only breeding to support itself depending on its prey.
So in a perfect natural world this would be true in this case I don't think so. You need to keep the population down so that they don't venture into the enviroment we don't want them in (everything outside of the forest).
Posted: 22:59 Sep 21 2004 [ 1 2 ]