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by Jayjay
Being one of the people the late Pope called "Evil" I don't have a lot of respect for him. It would be hypocrisy for me to act any differently after his death than when he was alive. While it is true that this 'disrespect' may cause offence to any Catholic readers (though this presupposes that all Catholics supported John Paul II, which is not actually the case), it should also be considered that words of praise towards the deceased can cause offence to those who the late pontiff attacked or through inaction condemned.

Already mentioned has been his role in the AIDS epidemic. No, he wasn't to blame for AIDS, nor was he the sole cause of its spread. But he didn't help, and in fact actively stopped those members of the Catholic Church who wanted to pass out condoms, or teach that they should be used. Yes, there are many other reasons why AIDS has spread, in Africa and the rest of the world. But to borrow an old phrase, if you aren't part of the solution...

(Edited by Jayjay 04/04/2005 15:19)

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Exactly my point. I don't have to respect a man because everyone says so. And on that note, I'm sick of everyone (not necessarily on this board) trying to get me to respect him when I do not at all. It seems no-one likes a different opinion.

(Edited by lizzieslayer 04/04/2005 17:41)

Oh and I don't wanna get involved with all the petty arguments in this thread, I just want to state my feelings!

i agree with an earlier poster that he should have retired earlier in his illness....however as he is the ultimate power(in the RC faith anyway) on earth, it was up to him to step down..which he didn't...(not being inflammitory..i was brought up RC)although the Chapels would prob fall on my head now if i walked through their doors....At the end of the day he was a very sick old man..who hopefully died peacefully...nuff said.

I was having a rather interesting conversation about the Pope with a R.C. friend of mine today. She said that John Paul II was elected as a modern and liberal Pope to take the church forward. However, within any bureaucracy the size of the Vatican you have civil servants. In this case, a (hopefully small) group of hardliners have been in the background manipulating their "leader".

Any reforms were fought against - with rumours that the campaign was not above committing murder to get its own way.

While I agree that the late Pope took a conservative stance on a number of hot-button issues, I'm not convinced it was entirely voluntary.

While the John Paul II was elected as a modernising and liberal pope, partly through his involvement with the Vatican II council, his papacy never really delivered on the liberalism. Modernizer he certainly was, and his attempts to take the papacy out of its traditional hiding places and out to the world, with a little help from that bizarre "Pope-mobile" at one point, should be applauded. No Pope had done more to go out and be there in the world, if only physically and not culturally, certainly in the last few centuries. But a moral liberal he never was. The "it's not me, it's my advisors" ploy is one used by many a conservative, in many an organization, as a method of appeasing liberals within and without.

John-Paul not only consistently made moral pronouncements against women, against homosexuals, and all the issues mentioned in the above posts, but actively censored many liberal theologians in the Catholic church.

In many ways he had much in common with our own Margaret Thatcher, as a moral and cultural conservative, but with a desire to modernise the appearance (if not the body) of the organizations they led.

So we now have a new Pope. Pope Benedict XVI was elected shortly after 5pm this afternoon in one of the shortest papal elections in years. And doubt that anyone on here who didn't like John Paul II will like this one any better!

Indeed, he was John Paul's right hand man as i gather. And he's 78 and looks as if he's about to pop his clogs too

There were a few in there early sixtys you would have thought they would have picked them.

Cardinal Ratzinger was the power behind the throne for the last few years, nicknamed "the enforcer". (If it sounds like something out The Godfather, that's no accident.) It's less of a mouthful than his official job title, Prefector of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, a longwinded rebranding of the Vatican organisation formerly known as the Holy Inquisition.

He's a worthy sucessor to his predecessors. He ruthlessly crushed dissent on controversial issues in the church. His signature was on a secret letter from the 1960s giving instructions to cover up child abuse by priests. And I doubt his security will let him pass through Soho if he ever visits England: he called homosexuality "intrinsically evil".

Reasons to respect this man no doubt to follow.

Oh dear a homophobic Pope who also is against many women's rights and apparently rock music (?!?!). This so isn't worrying me. Note: sarcasm.

(Edited by lizzieslayer 20/04/2005 22:23)

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by Byron

Reasons to respect this man no doubt to follow.

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Not from me.

I'm afraid that this is a terrible decision and will do far more harm than good.

Byron your original post stated that
"I hope his replacement does more to uphold the better teachings of the faith. " I fear we have got exactly the opposite.

The rat starts as he means to go on.

Spain introduces a *civil* law for gay marriage. Pope uses his first major announcement to condemn it, and tells Spanish catholics to resign before they obey the law.

Lovely chap.

Blimey - that didn't take long, did it?

On a slightly lighter note, did anyone see Jonathan Ross earlier when he was talking about the thing in the news about Pope Benedict being a member of the Hitler Youth? (*New Pope waves greetings to followers* "NO! No, your Holiness, use two hands! TWO HANDS!" )