I think as long as the Broadband companies keep upping the service (Blueyonder currently trialing 24 meg access in some areas) and the supply of material is there, then I think this will most certainly be the next big thing in terms of downloads. If it isn't already that is.

The only way I have access to some of my favourite shows is through downloading. And not because they're shown over here on a delay or whatever - they're not shown over here at all. I wouldn't even know they existed without t'interweb. So in that sense, it helps the industry, because I'm far more likely to buy the DVDs of said shows if I like them (even if I have the episodes downloaded anyway - I'm a sucker like that). It also makes me more likely to check out other shows based on recommendations, similar program types, etc. I've spent far, far more on TV shows in the last few years than I would've had I not downloaded.

Illegal downloading of TV shows? Yes, I think it's probably here to stay. How much of it goes on really depends on how they tackle the legal downloading side of it. I can see them being two very different, but equally popular markets.

It's the same with downloading music. With only a very, very small number of exceptions (i.e. download-only singles) I have never paid money to download a song off the internet. I'm a bit old-school in my music playing, I like to pay money to buy CDs. A lot of people rip all their CDs to their iPod and then get rid of them. I'm the opposite, I love having CDs. When I get the urge to listen to an album, I like searching through my collection to find it, I like putting the disc in my hi-fi/computer and I like flicking through the little booklet while it plays.

That's not to say I don't download music. I do. But it's always either to hear a band/album I don't know and don't want to spend £15 on when there's a fair chance I'll hate it, or to get odd songs that I really wouldn't want the rest of the album, or for really obscure tracks that aren't available anywhere else except possibly for bootlegs.

With TV shows, almost all of my downloads fall into that latter category, old or obscure shows that aren't available anywhere else (for example: Mary Whitehouse Experience, Fist of Fun, Takin' Over the Asylum, old Dr. Who, Sean's Show, Maid Marian and her Merry Men etc.). Everything else, I'll buy the DVD. So if the legal download sites basically just allow you to download stuff that's also out on DVD, then I'll be giving them a miss. If they offer decent quality versions of these other shows that aren't available on DVD, then I'd be happy to pay for them. But sadly I can't see that happening...

One would assume that the costs of making an obscure show available for download is wayyy less that producing and advertising a DVD release, so yes it would be great if that sort of thing found a place in official downloading services

However, the real problem is that securing anything for a DVD release involves a million and one contract and rights clearance issues. I can only assume that this would extend to a paid distribution of any kind regardless of the media used, including downloading. There comes a point where it simply doesnt PAY for the studios to jump through hundreds of expensive hoops, for a minority audience.

(Edited by Wobag 15/11/2005 01:02)

I'm sure it'll be around for good. You can be sure that for every way the studios find of curtailing downloading, the pirates will find one to start back up again. And good thing too I say, it's the free market at its freest. It keeps pressure on studios to make it more trouble than its worth. Just witness how film piracy has brought in simultaneous, or very close to it, global release dates, ending long waits for fans. Long as the pressure's there the consumer can only benefit.

Theft is theft. Simple as that.

But I completely agree with Byron (no it's not that rare, we have very similar viewpoints on many things, it's just we usually come at them from completely the opposite ends of the spectrum) that the way in which it has forced things like simultaneous global release, and quicker release to DVD etc can ONLY be good.

I am torn between the good that comes from illegal downloading be it music, TV, movies etc, to put the only possible pressure on these huge corporations and the fact that it is still undeniably theft...

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by MonSTeR
Theft is theft. Simple as that.
...
the fact that it is still undeniably theft

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No it isn't theft it is copyright infringement which is a completely different ballgame They haven't given it a different name just because it sounded so much funnier that way.

If I have a duplication device and place it next to your watch hit the button and on the other side of the table the exact same watch appears out of thin air and I take it away... have I just stolen your watch? No court will say I just stole your watch therefore it aint theft it is however a copyright infringement on the rights of the watch manufacturer.

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by Chambler
(quotes)
No it isn't theft it is copyright infringement which is a completely different ballgame They haven't given it a different name just because it sounded so much funnier that way.

If I have a duplication device and place it next to your watch hit the button and on the other side of the table the exact same watch appears out of thin air and I take it away... have I just stolen your watch? No court will say I just stole your watch therefore it aint theft it is however a copyright infringement on the rights of the watch manufacturer.

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These days you might get caught with a theft of intellectual property rights actually. I have an aquaintence at the Copyright Licencing Agency, I'll ask him tomorrow how it's handled in UK law

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by MonSTeR
(quotes)
These days you might get caught with a theft of intellectual property rights actually. I have an aquaintence at the Copyright Licencing Agency, I'll ask him tomorrow how it's handled in UK law

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Would be interesting to hear With theft of intellectual property rights I get a picture of someone holding a gun to my head forcing me to sign all my IP rights to them. Thats why the have the lovely term infringe. As after I have infringed someones IP rights they still have the IP rights.

But just curious how you would classify this situation: If you use the internet as your pvr, so you ownly download shows / eps that are available on the TV stations you have in your package so you can watch them when it is convient for you without having to buy a 200 quid box to do so. In that case you wouldn't be doing very much different than you would with a pvr box / vcr which is legal. Do you also see this as "theft"?

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by MonSTeR
Theft is theft. Simple as that.

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I'll not try and debate whether it is theft or not (as Chamb's already having an entertaining stab at it) but it's perfectly possible that, due to the way TV shows are funded, downloads haven't actually cost studios any money. In fact I've heard lots of annecdotal evidence they lead people to buy the DVDs. Would love it if someone could prove downloads were a form of theft that's actually *making* the studios money!

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by Byron
Would love it if someone could prove downloads were a form of theft that's actually *making* the studios money!

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They did studies which concluded that the downloading of mp3's effectively made music companies money as people were actually more willing to buy the audio cd / dvd. However this got flooded by 10 studies showing the opposite.

With the new media formats (blu-ray / hddvd) possibly not having region checks built in anymore this might actually mean we'll see syndication even faster as it is happening now as when the dvd boxset is out the show lost much of its punch in syndication.

Many would argue that this is only relevant in the mid term, the itunes offering of certain show episodes is just the seed of on demand programming which many networks predict will mean the complete end to broadcast schedules within a few years. No channels. No borders. Just content providers.

This would certainly reduce the amount of TV I watch! How much of the TV you watch would you actually pay for on a programme by programme basis? How much time is it just 'on' in the background, or at least, something pleasant that you are only glancing up at occasionally?

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from the dictionary
Theft: The felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same.

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Note the removing part. With copyright infringement you do not remove somthing from someone else's posession.

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by Spikeo
The only way I have access to some of my favourite shows is through downloading. And not because they're shown over here on a delay or whatever - they're not shown over here at all. I wouldn't even know they existed without t'interweb. So in that sense, it helps the industry, because I'm far more likely to buy the DVDs of said shows if I like them (even if I have the episodes downloaded anyway - I'm a sucker like that). It also makes me more likely to check out other shows based on recommendations, similar program types, etc. I've spent far, far more on TV shows in the last few years than I would've had I not downloaded.

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Ditto to all of the above.

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by Spikeo
The only way I have access to some of my favourite shows is through downloading. And not because they're shown over here on a delay or whatever - they're not shown over here at all. I wouldn't even know they existed without t'interweb. So in that sense, it helps the industry, because I'm far more likely to buy the DVDs of said shows if I like them (even if I have the episodes downloaded anyway - I'm a sucker like that). It also makes me more likely to check out other shows based on recommendations, similar program types, etc. I've spent far, far more on TV shows in the last few years than I would've had I not downloaded.

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I've never been able to download shows (due to download caps etc.) but I totally agree with all of that. Also, I know that I probably wouldn't have watched shows like Lost on Channel 4 (and bought the box set) if it hadn't been for the recommendations of people who had downloaded the US episodes.

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by Chambler
(quotes)
However this got flooded by 10 studies showing the opposite.

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Backed with a healthy "interest" from music companies by any chance?

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by Byron
(quotes)
Backed with a healthy "interest" from music companies by any chance?

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Uhmmm yeah but I figured that kinda was a given

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by DJ Billy
I've never been able to download shows (due to download caps etc.)

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lol, no sooner did I post that than the download cap was increased, so I'm currently downloading something just to test it out