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by Sandia
But I'm wondering, what IS a normal summer climate pattern in Britain.

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This is the tricky thing Sandia, there IS no "normal" summer climate. Every year you wonder if its generally going to be a mix of sunny and occasional rain, a long sunny spell, or a complete rainfest. Every year you hear that because it was a severe winter, it means we are in for a hot summer, or the reverse or some other theory, and its almost always wrong

Likewise you never really know WHEN its coming, often you can have a really super sunny and warm April, May or June. Half the time thats an omen of a dry, sprinkler-ban inducing summer, the other half the time it just indicates summer came early and THAT WAS IT.
Likewise, several times in the past, its seemed that the climate forgot about summer completely, but come September, bang, a lovely Indian summer.

There have been famously hot summers ('76), famously wet ones, (this year) and can equally be used as proof of climate change or proof the weather here has extreme spells every now and again!

The experts seem to say the climate is changing, but really the 20 or so summers most of us might have experienced is far too small a sample to perceive a marked change for such a changeable climate.

Mostly what we expect from summer is the unexpected

(Edited by Wobag 24/07/2007 00:15)

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by Wobag
The experts seem to say the climate is changing

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The climate on this planet has been changing as long as this planet is old so it's not a stretch of the imagination that it still is doing so

But yeah we seem to be having a bit of extreme weather. Normally this extreme weather ends up slightly higher and passes above the UK however we seem to be in the middle of it. At least we can use our hose pipes this year ashame we don't actually need them to water the garden

one of my friends (originally from ohio, currently living in blackburn) has been moaning about the weather up in the hills - apparently, its raining every day, and when its not raining, its seriously grey. if the sun actually comes out in the morning, that just means its going to bucket it down in the afternoon.
ok, so up in the higher reaches of the pennines, thats fairly typical weather, especially for autumn - but then again, you can also get extremely long, dry, sunny spells - i know, im in a lower part of the pennines, and the weather here isnt usually too bad.
the main problems have come in low-lying areras - particularly in places where there has been a boom in new housing - several years ago the goverment decided that areas must be set aside for building new homes for the ever-expanding populace, and in their wisdom decided to site lots of building projects on flood plains - the large amounts of concrete that replaced arable land meant that rain water washes straight into the rivers, meaning that any increase in rainfall increases river heights dramatically - the result being the flooding that we see.
strange but true - when katrina hit new orleans, the british goverment immediately wrote a cheque for millions in aid for those who were affected - same with the the floods in bangladesh, the pakistan earthquake, the indian ocean tsunami, and numerous other natural disasters - its taken weeks for them to send any aid out to those affected by this flooding, and what they HAVE sent has been only a small fraction of what was sent abroad.
and even worse - insurers are, in many cases, refusing to pay out, citing "act of god" clauses among others.
meaning that, in one of the most prosperous nations in the world, people have lost their homes and posessions, and have no way of replacing them - in many cases, their places of employment have also been badly damaged, meaning it may be a while before they will be able to work again.

personally, ive always thought it would be interesting to see my house being flooded - partly out of curiosity, but mostly because the chav-tastic estates on 3 sides of me would end up 100 feet under water...

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by Wobag
(quotes)

The experts seem to say the climate is changing, but really the 20 or so summers most of us might have experienced is far too small a sample to perceive a marked change for such a changeable climate.

Mostly what we expect from summer is the unexpected

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Interesting--and thanks. So there really is no reliable summer pattern. I guess there's no reliable winter one either then.

Just curious, do you get much snow in winter? I guess that's variable depending on how far north you are or how far up you are in the mountains.

And yeah, I guess it's difficult to connect this flooding to climate change when the weather seems to swing from one extreme to another from year to year. A change in precipitation patterns, especially more precipitation in higher latitudes, is supposed to be connected to climate change. But I guess we need to watch the weather for a few more years to see if that's happening. I certainly hope this type of rainfall doesn't become the norm for summers in Britain!!

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by mad
(quotes)

...when katrina hit new orleans, the british government immediately wrote a cheque for millions in aid for those who were affected...[but] its taken weeks for them to send any aid out to thsoe affected by this flooding, and what they HAVE sent has been only a small fraction of what was sent abroad..."

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Sounds very familiar. And it's equally frustrating and irritating here as well. Don't get me started about the people whose lives were destroyed by flooding in New Orleans. Half the people of New Orleans are still scattered around the country unable to go home and our government seems unwilling to do much to help them. And like there, insurers are refusing to pay for the damages.

There was a story on National Public Radio (our main non-commercial radio station) this morning about the floods in Britain and how people in the worst-hit areas are coping with the lack of fresh water, inability to get food and other goods in, power cuts. It seemed from the story that a lot of people were taking it upon themselves to help one another as much as possible--doing what they could for people around them that needed help. That was nice to see.

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by mad
(quotes)

...I've always thought it would be interesting to see my house being flooded...mostly because the chav-tastic estates on 3 sides of me would end up 100 feet under water..."

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Ok, British slang alert here: "chavs" I've heard the term before. Never quite knew what it meant. But from the way it was being used when I heard it before--and the way you're using it here--I'm thinking it's not something you want to be called. So a chav is what?--an ass? a jerk?

Reminds me of the "lesson" I was getting in derogatory British slang words for people from an American friend of mine who lived in London for a couple of years. My end of the conversation went something like, "So what's a git? Oh, and is that better or worse than a tosser? A pratt? Where does that fall. OK. And w*nker, that's really bad, right?" My friend was very amused. Now chav. Hmmmmm. I need a dictionary...

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by Sandia
(quotes)Hmmmmm. I need a dictionary...

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from urbandictionary.com.

chav
**note**
also pronounced "scum-of-the-frakking-earth".

there was some discussion last night on livejournal about the merits and morality of eugenics - it was widely agreed that genetic manipulation of a foetus was only to be considered to correct major birth defects, or to remove the chav gene...
but i digress - back to the floods...

hopefully, the floodwater will help me extinguishe some of the flames i feel will soon be heading my way...

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by Sandia
Ok, British slang alert here: "chavs" I've heard the term before. Never quite knew what it meant. But from the way it was being used when I heard it before--and the way you're using it here--I'm thinking it's not something you want to be called. So a chav is what?--an ass? a jerk?

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The link mad posted is comprehensive, but to offer up a blurb, a "chav" is a juvenile delinquent with a fear of work and an affinity for cheap sportswear and casual violence. I believe "white trash" is a reasonable US approximation.

And no, you absolutely do not want to be mistaken for one. (Unless you shop only at JBB Sports and drive a converted Vauxhall Astra it's unlikely you will be.)

See also regional synonyms such as "ned" (Scotland) "scally" (North/Liverpool) and "rat-boy" (ubiquitous, sadly).

I simply relay the info, so keep them flames doused.

lets not forget the cheap jewelery, and the seeming ability to reproduce several times a year.

You guys are so funny. This whole "chav" thing has me cracking up laughing. Now that I know what a "chav" is, I'd say we've got a veritable chav-o-rama around these parts.

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by Sandia
Just curious, do you get much snow in winter? I guess that's variable depending on how far north you are or how far up you are in the mountains.

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Nope we dont get much snow in winter, its not unusual to go the whole year without seeing a single snowflake. Average would be a handful of light snow showers which just result in slushiness, if it sticks at all. Every few years youll have a "proper" snowfall with drifts, snowmen, sledging and so forth.

There is indeed a slight North/South thing, though its really only evident when you get up into Scotalnd.

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by Sandia
This whole "chav" thing has me cracking up laughing.

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I taught chav to my friend in L.A. We were both at different parts of LAX one day (me coming back to the UK and her going to Miami) and she text me saying "OMG! I'm sat next to chavs" LOL. I also taughter her wanker and bollocks. Americans saying bollocks never fails to amuse me. They say Bow locks. HAHAHA!

I was having a discussion with someone near Arkansas recently who asked what 'chav' meant - the explanation that did it for him was to picture the little banjo playing kid from 'Deliverance' wearing a tracksuit, but without the culture or popularity required to have a film made about him.

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by Wobag
(quotes)

Nope we dont get much snow in winter, its not unusual to go the whole year without seeing a single snowflake. Average would be a handful of light snow showers which just result in slushiness, if it sticks at all. Every few years youll have a "proper" snowfall with drifts, snowmen, sledging and so forth.

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I want your winter then. Never been much of a fan of "proper" snowfalls. Near New York City, we don't get as much snow as some places, but enough to make everyone spend a few hours each winter shoveling walkways and digging cars out of snowbanks. I could really do quite nicely without it.

I am a bit surprised though. Thought you'd get a bit more snow than you described. I think the climate in Britain (well, outside of Scotland, maybe) is a lot milder than I would have thought.

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by Teresa
(quotes)

I taught chav to my friend in L.A. We were both at different parts of LAX one day (me coming back to the UK and her going to Miami) and she text me saying "OMG! I'm sat next to chavs" LOL. I also taughter her wanker and bollocks. Americans saying bollocks never fails to amuse me. They say Bow locks. HAHAHA!

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HA! Totally cracks me up.

"Bow locks?" Hmmm. Sounds okay to me.

I figure using derogatory British slang could be pretty useful, because most Americans have no idea what it means. I think I even remember back in the Buffy days that Giles once used the word "wanker" on the show. I think he called someone that. And it slipped by the network censors because they had no idea what it meant. i'm sure the writers had a good laugh off of that.

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by Alan
(quotes)

I was having a discussion with someone near Arkansas recently who asked what 'chav' meant - the explanation that did it for him was to picture the little banjo playing kid from 'Deliverance' wearing a tracksuit, but without the culture or popularity required to have a film made about him.

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I'll bet he was IN Arkansas, but didn't want to admit it.

OK, you should all get together and write "The Guide to Chavs" or something like that--with photos, definitions, examples, diagrams, maps. Maybe publishers in Britain set the bar a lot higher, but here in the US, I'll bet you could get something like that published. You've all been amusing me no end the last couple of days with your descriptions. You know, I'm only partially joking about this. I've seen weirder things published.

Oh, and by the way, I'm adopting the word chavs. I've decided to single-handedly spread it across the whole North American continent. There are just some things that have to be done.

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by Sandia
I am a bit surprised though. Thought you'd get a bit more snow than you described. I think the climate in Britain (well, outside of Scotland, maybe) is a lot milder than I would have thought.

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Thats because the majority of Europe has an Oceanic climate. Which means our winters are relatively warm while the summers are relatively cool. North American for its majority has a Continental climate which means warm summers and colder winters.



(Edited by Chambler 26/07/2007 14:38)

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by Sandia
Oh, and by the way, I'm adopting the word chavs. I've decided to single-handedly spread it across the whole North American continent.

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Just don't spread its subject across the continent, or you might fall victim to a spot of "extraordinary rendition". (And whatever it is the Canucks do. Enforced ice-hockey practise or some such.)

As for that user's guide to the Burberry Set, well ... www.chavscum.co.uk

For slanderous purposes only.

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by Chambler
(quotes)
Thats because the majority of Europe has an Oceanic climate. Which means our winters are relatively warm while the summers are relatively cool. North American for its majority has a Continental climate which means warm summers and colder winters.

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The part of the US where I live definitely has a continental climate. Our main weather maker in winter is a super-cold Arctic air mass that sits over northern Canada and blasts freezing cold air south across the Plains, the Midwest, and the Northeast of the US. When that pattern lasts for a long time, temperatures can dip down into single digits and even below zero with the wind chill. I really do hate winter.

Checked a climate map, and the only part of the US that has a climate similar to that in Britain is the northwest coast--northernmost California, plus Oregon, Washington, and up into British Columbia in Canada. Seattle and Portland (Oregon) have cool summers and mild winters. That area is also notorious for lots of rain. But I've never really experienced a climate like that for any long period.

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by Byron
(quotes)

And whatever it is the Canucks do. Enforced ice-hockey practise or some such.)

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Or run you off the road by roaring up behind you in big SUVs. OK, it was just two cars last Sunday with Quebec license plates--in a real hurry to get the hell outta dodge. I guess the longer you spend in New Jersey, the more eager you become to leave.

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by Byron
(quotes)

As for that user's guide to the Burberry Set, well ... www.chavscum.co.uk

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It's a type that exists on both sides of the Atlantic--from the boombox cars to the jewelry to the pitbull dogs.

One thing I did find interesting about that site though. People seemed to be amused, but there seemed to be a heavy undertone of anger and hostility, too. These people weren't just objects of joking and ridicule, they seemed to be objects of sheer hatred.

And by the way, what's wrong with Burberry? I don't wear the stuff. But it doesn't bother me. Or I don't think of anything in particular when I see someone wearing it. So if I showed up in a city in Britain wearing a Burberry coat people would think less of me. Well, considering I'm an American, let's change that to--people would think EVEN less of me? That's a bit bizarre.

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by Sandia
One thing I did find interesting about that site though. People seemed to be amused, but there seemed to be a heavy undertone of anger and hostility, too. These people weren't just objects of joking and ridicule, they seemed to be objects of sheer hatred.

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Yeees, well, many chavs treat mindless vandalism and violence as hobbies. Happy feelings are not the first response. That website might go a bit far, but then so do its namesakes, so it evens out. Most do grow out of it. I hope.

www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk is more light-hearted, and tells you all you could want to know about that distinctive breed, the Scottish "ned".

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And by the way, what's wrong with Burberry? I don't wear the stuff. But it doesn't bother me. Or I don't think of anything in particular when I see someone wearing it. So if I showed up in a city in Britain wearing a Burberry coat people would think less of me. Well, considering I'm an American, let's change that to--people would think EVEN less of me? That's a bit bizarre.

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It is, but blame the chavs who adopted the tartan as their tribal badge. (Channeling Braveheart or something? ) Think it began with football hooligans in the 1970s. It was originally a luxury brand, most often found as a jacket lining. Like you say, bizarre.

From wikipedia: "South Wales police ran a drive against anti-social behaviour under the name Operation Burberry[!!!], and Burberry admitted that 'Burberry is now synonymous with Chavs and thugs.' "

As for guilt-by-association, chavs/scallies/neds don't wear Burberry as much as they did. Unless you're wearing a Burberry baseball cap/three-stripe tracksuit combo, you can probably pass yourself off as one of the huntin' & shootin' set. (With whom Burberry was previously synonymous -- the tartan doesn't half jump about on the social scale!)

And I hereby submit this thread as the most tangential ever.

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by Byron
And I hereby submit this thread as the most tangential ever.

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*stamp* APPROVED!

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by Sandia
(quotes)
One thing I did find interesting about that site though. People seemed to be amused, but there seemed to be a heavy undertone of anger and hostility, too. These people weren't just objects of joking and ridicule, they seemed to be objects of sheer hatred.

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these people are famous for being intolerant towards anyone even slightly different from them - and they tend to demonstrate that intolerance in extreme ways.
i have several friends who have been physically assaulted by gangs of chavs (its never just one or two, always a large crowd, and almost never attacking more than 2 people) for daring to look different from one of these in-breeds - for the heinous crime of being a "goff" (thats anyone who listens to any form of music that involves guitars, seemingly), you can look forward to ending up bruised and bloodied, if youre lucky, and needing a lengthy stay in hospital if not.
most people take a very dim view of them, in spite of (or possibly because of) one tabloids attempts to make the chav lifestyle (mostly fashion) popular in the mainstream.

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by Byron
(quotes)
And I hereby submit this thread as the most tangential ever.

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Should i be proud that a random, throwaway comment by me led to us educating one of our colonial cousins in the etiquette regarding our equivalent of redneck trailer-trash??

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by mad
Should i be proud that a random, throwaway comment by me led to us educating one of our colonial cousins in the etiquette regarding our equivalent of redneck trailer-trash??

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Well it beats talking about the bloody weather.