On forms I always write myself down as being British, but i'd have no problem putting myself down as European or just 'human'.

Technically, I'm all English. Parents, Grandparents and great Grandparents. There's a family tree on my Mum's side, but i've never read it AFAIK they're all English. On my Dad's side, they're definitely all english. As recently as my Great-grandad, they were blacksmiths, and common as muck (hey, i desverve the Smith surname, even if i do want rid of it lol).

So yeah, all english, but it doesn't mean a jot to me and because of that I find it hard to answer your original question. I guess it just gives people links to their history, makes them feel more secure in who they are.

There have been a lot of TV shows recently (because of the anniversary of the abolishment of slavery) about black people researching their ancestry and visiting their ancestral nations, and many 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation British Asians cling to their Asian identity. But there are many who don't, and see themselves as being solely English, or British. Or Welsh, poor sods.

National identity/sovereignty is a blight in my eyes, people cling to their 'national' identity far too hard. Bring on the United States of Europe Or make the UK the next US state Or make the UN an elected global government... that'd be good

(Edited by Maffrew 17/08/2007 09:32)

I always consider myself to be British.

But ancestry wise. My mum's family originated in Ireland, so i have a faint tinge or Irish blood in me. My kids have Irish blood in them from my ancestry and also their dad's.

im english, and proud of it.
ok, so my mother is scottish, but when pushed this only means that im british (you would be surprised how difficult it is to LEGALLY be english - its ok to be scots, irish, or welsh, but the goverment views being english as racist.)
however, because i have no love for the southern-centric goverment, i often refer to manchester as my country - im a mancunian, and proud of it, and would jump at the chance for manchester to claim its independance from the UK.

I think of myself as English (in preference but not opposed to British, if that makes any sense) but I hear it told my family's quite the melting pot (the usual mix of the rest of the UK but only distant, distant relations) although the most noticeable one is my Mauritian Grandmother whose native language is French - I've had mates laugh at the suggestion and laugh even harder (biting their tongues) when actually seeing me next to Grandma in the flesh.

But even though it's nice to be able to boast "I'm a quarter-Mauritian" or anything along those lines, I tend to think of myself about as English as a chav with a cup of tea and a crumpet.

This does remind me of a comment on last night's Mock the Week: "The Scots hate the English, the Irish hate the English, the Welsh hate the English, hell - the English hate everyone including most of the English. That makes the English the most tolerant people in the World for living with so many people they can't stand!"

I would say Irish for Nationality, I was born here and lived here all my life.

I am a Sudhun, which is a tribal group that lives in Kashmir. Here is a Wikipedia page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudhun . Not sure where we come from exactly.

Actually thinking about it I could also claim to be part Indian, seeing as my Great Grand Mother is originally from the Indian side of Kashmir. Add to this the identities of Pakistani and Kashmiri and it you have a rather confusing identity.

(Edited by wes 19/08/2007 00:54)

My post on tartans probably triggered this little tangent, so I'd better respond.

As I said on the other thread, I consider myself an Englishman of Scottish descent. (Hence the post on tartans.) But since English and Scots have the same passport (at least, for now) the identity is of cultural rather than legal importance. If I lived in Scotland for any length of time I might say different – such is the flexibility of having two countries within, erm, another country.

Anyhow, I consider myself a Londoner first and foremost, so if London declared itself independent that'd be easiest. Much of the country probably wishes the capital would hurry up and secede already.

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by Byron
Anyhow, I consider myself a Londoner first and foremost, so if London declared itself independent that'd be easiest. Much of the country probably wishes the capital would hurry up and secede already.

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i think youll find that its US lot want to get away from YOU!

Id usually define myself as British, however I guess English is becoming more the operative term as Scotland, NI, and Wales become increasingly independent.

I only use European in a geographical sense.

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by mad
(quotes)

i think youll find that its US lot want to get away from YOU!

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Okay, so I get a global capital and most of the UK's GDP and you get the aristocracy and some pretty village greens.

Fair enough.

Well I'm Dutch but I pretty much consider myself a European.

Let's see, I was born in England to English parents and all my other relatives (that I know of) are English too. So yeah, I consider myself English. But you'd be amazed how many people try to tell me otherwise...

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by PictureOfFlowers
But you'd be amazed how many people try to tell me otherwise...

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You're Welsh aren't you? ::Runs::

Well, I'm British, but if you investigate my family tree, it gets a bit muddy..

Technically I'm directly 1/2 Canadian, 1/2 English, but I think there's probably some Irish, and certainly some Mediterranean in there somewhere too..

I'm half tempted to do one of those DNA genealogy tests, and see just how much of a mongrel I really am

I'm 100% Dutch...

I'm British, sometimes describe myself as Scottishish, generally consider myself to be a Londoner, however I don't regard any regional identity as particularly important in general or of specific importance to my personal identity.

As for USians...

- total population of the British Isles (GB + Ireland + bits) that IDs as Irish or of Irish descent is about 7.5 million

- total population of the US that IDs as Irish or of Irish descent is about 35 million. A further 5 million ID as being of scots-irish descent.

There's been a lot of interesting sociology done around USian cultural identity but it often very quickly becomes very political and you find that national, cultural and racial identity all quickly blur together.

For example the use of the default/generic "american" to denote european-american with the indigenous population being specifically identified as "native american"; the use of "latino"; the use of "african american" etc.

One friend when visiting the US was discretely asked by someone there whether she prefered to be described as "african english" or "african european"; another caused confusion both before she arrived -- when somebody described her as Indian (prompting a native american digression) -- and again after arriving when her host/employer described the earlier confusion and checked whether she prefered to be described as British or Indian, to which she responded "Pakistani"

Also compare & contrast the reactions of USians being mistaken for Canadians, and Canadians being mistaken for USians

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by Callum
As for USians...

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Interesting. I had a professor of Latin American history in college who wouldn't allow any of us to refer to ourselves as "American." We had to use the term "United Stateser." He thought it was arrogant for people of the US to appropriate the term American, being that there are a couple of continents of people living in the Americas. I thought it was a bit silly. But... I've never heard the term "USians" before though.

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by Callum
For example the use of the default/generic "american" to denote european-american with the indigenous population being specifically identified as "native american"; the use of "latino"; the use of "african american" etc.

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In my experience, all people in the US use the term "American" to refer to themselves, regardless of their race or ethnicity. Within the US, people tend to identify strongly with a specific racial and ethnic group and they use that subset name: Asian Americans, African Americans, and so on. Within that, there are Chinese Americans or Italian Americans. I've noticed that many people here, when speaking to other Americans, tend to drop the "American" part of the name and say, "I'm Italian" or "I'm Irish" regardless of the fact that the ancestor who came from that country arrived by boat 100 years or more ago. The ethnic identification Americans have with their immigrant roots tends to be strong. Not in all cases. But in many.

Just FYI, "Native American" is a politically correct term that was introduced a few years back. It's still used by many people, but not generally by Native Americans, who prefer to be called Indians. Within that, they refer to themselves by tribe or nation, as in "I'm Cherokee" or "I'm Sioux."

By the way, I've always found the use of the term "Yankee" interesting. Americans used to refer to themselves collectively as Yankees, and although the term is well known as a nickname for Americans, I don't think it's used as much by Americans anymore. I think it's used a lot more by people outside the US to refer to Americans. When I see it, it always seems like a term from a bygone era.

Within the US, Yankee (aside from the baseball team) is used to refer to people who live in the North--the North as defined by the American Civil War. People of the South are NOT Yankees. Don't call them Yankees. They will NOT like it.

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by Callum
Also compare & contrast the reactions of USians being mistaken for Canadians, and Canadians being mistaken for USians

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Americans mistaken for Canadians = mildly amused. Canadians mistaken for Americans = pretty pissed off.

(quotes)
Americans mistaken for Canadians = mildly amused. Canadians mistaken for Americans = pretty pissed off.
[/quote]

What she said.

When I lived in Ireland I noticed that we Canadians are the only ones who will wear our flag in some form (badges, pins, lanyard,...). Not the Germans, Japanese, Portugese, etc... no one else but us does this. Makes me proud

Myself and a friend were walking along a road in Dublin and some guy on the other side yelled "YANK!"... I don't think I had heard the term before then (other than "Yankees" being an americans sports team... but anyway...). So I asked my friend what he said, and she said he called us yanks. um okaaayy? I was wearing my CANADIAN lanyard and she was wearing her red and white jumper bearing the letters... C... A... N... A... D... A... I thought it said a lot about this bloke's intelligence (or lack thereof...) or at least his eyesight, lol

BTW... I am a Canadian, and a Newfoundlander

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by Persephone
When I lived in Ireland I noticed that we Canadians are the only ones who will wear our flag in some form (badges, pins, lanyard,...). Not the Germans, Japanese, Portugese, etc... no one else but us does this. Makes me proud

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It more likely has to do with the fact that in a lot of countries wearing your "national colours" (in your own country) outside of international sporting events, other special events and the military etc is something that is reserved for people who are associated with an extreme right movement. Therefore not many people actually will have clothes / pins / badges bearing their national colours which are suitable for normal daily wear.

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by Sandia
(quotes)
Within the US, Yankee (aside from the baseball team) is used to refer to people who live in the North--the North as defined by the American Civil War. People of the South are NOT Yankees. Don't call them Yankees. They will NOT like it.

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yup - ive done this a few times to annoy those who dont realise the civil war has been over for a fairly long time - i dunno, it sometimes seems as if those who react the most almost believe they were there...
then again, theres a lot of yanks piss of the scots for similar reasons...