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by Cat
Also, on a side note. someone mentioned "silly" courses. In my opinion all courses are silly if you are not going into that profession.

For expmply i knew many people with english and history degrees. Where they teaching Hostory or english? were they writing? Were they working for a museum? No, they were working in Insurance. Someone please explain why they trained for three years to do something completly unrelated.

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Because the point of university is not to train people, it's to educate them. Even in the case of those taking vocational courses, such as law or medecine, not everyone is going to end up in the job suggested by their degrees.

The vast majority of all education is almost useless in terms of the facts you learn. The important thing is not that the Battle of Hastings occured in 1066 but why it happened and what the consequences were. To know these requires an understanding of people, an idea about cause and effect. To write convincingly about it requires research, judgement as to which sources are the most reliable and what their implications are, a logically structured argument. In other words, what Tannhauser said.

These are other ways of learning these things. For instance, posting on T21 helps me write course essays as much as the other way round However, I'm naturally academic and going to university is the most effective and enjoyable way for me to do it. That is my choice, and no, I don't see why other people should have to pay for me to do so.

But if you think the point of arts courses is only to provide people to continue the teaching of arts subjects how can you justify their existence at all?

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by Desire
True enough. It really annoyed me to hear students saying things like "I can't be bothered to get a job, I'll go to uni and worry about it later."

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I didn't say that, no-one heard me say it, you can't prove a thing!

heh, I had to go to uni to escape my home town.. seriously no prospects there.. That and to set myself up so I could get better jobs in the future

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by Stoo
heh, I had to go to uni to escape my home town.. seriously no prospects there..

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Sadly that's what a lot of people say. The reason they apply to Uni.

Well yeah, it was either leave, or get some rubbish shop shop, or scrounge off the social like the other 90% of the population there.

Trust me, there was *nothing* there for me.

Could you not have gone down t' pit?

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by Demona
(quotes)
But if you think the point of arts courses is only to provide people to continue the teaching of arts subjects how can you justify their existence at all?

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No, not everyone shoud become a teacher (and lets face it, who would want to in this day and age). All i'm saying is the degree should have some relavance to adult life and the career path you choose. There are many careers where English is relavent, same for Histroy and many other courses.

I understand that learning new things helps us grow as people but a degree course is a bit drastic for a "hobbie" expecially when you have to be funded by either the goverment or your parents.

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by Incandenza
Could you not have gone down t' pit?

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Not really, seeing as there are a distinct lack of pits in East Anglia.. (I came to Sheffield from Suffolk for uni..)

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by Cat
(quotes)
All i'm saying is the degree should have some relavance to adult life and the career path you choose.

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Well if everyone knew exactly what career they were going to follow in later life at the age of 18 then I'm sure that statement would have more relevance. Unfortunately however an awful lot of people don't know what they want to do at that age, and many of those who do end up doing something different.

I know some people who had their heart set on becoming a teacher from an early age. However I also know a few people who didn't have a clue what they wanted to do when they started uni, they just went because everyone else did, but after their degree decided to do a PGCE and are now very good teachers. I'm sure there are quite a few people who end up going into teaching jobs this way, but from what you're saying they shouldn't have gone to uni in the first place because they didn't have the right motives? There's enough of a shortage of teachers in this country as it is.

I understand where you're are coming from (it dismays me too to hear students complaining that they're in debt, then brag about the £2000 they've spent on alcohol since they've been at uni), but people only going to uni if it has direct relevance to what they want to do afterwards is unworkable.

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by Stoo
Not really, seeing as there are a distinct lack of pits in East Anglia.. (I came to Sheffield from Suffolk for uni..)

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LOL

Yeah, not much need for caged budgies in Suffolk!

Now stop dissing Suffolk!

Ok it's a bit of a backwater but it's my backwater so

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by Demona
However, I'm naturally academic and going to university is the most effective and enjoyable way for me to do it. That is my choice, and no, I don't see why other people should have to pay for me to do so.

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I have a question, Demona. Do you have a job? Are you working out of Uni hours to pay for all your food, board, academic materials, social life, etc?

If not, who is paying for it all? (Forgive me if that seems like a rather personal question but it just occured to me that unless you are working all hours and paying for everything yourself, then you are expecting someone to pay for it, be it your parents or the state)

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by Stoo
(quotes)

Not really, seeing as there are a distinct lack of pits in East Anglia.. (I came to Sheffield from Suffolk for uni..)

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Doh! Wrong cultural sterotype.

How about farming?

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by Incandenza
(quotes)

Doh! Wrong cultural sterotype.

How about farming?

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Naa, too smelly

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by Stoo
heh, I had to go to uni to escape my home town.. seriously no prospects there.. That and to set myself up so I could get better jobs in the future

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Exactly, I was faced with the same prospects. Then I decided to move away and get stuck into things my way. Granted though, I can fully understand your reasoning as if I didn't do what I did then I would probably be working in the local Tesco store.

Saying that though, then you have the dilemma of picking what you want to do the rest of your life. You can be boring ala Accountancy, some types of sales etc. Or you can do what you want (Whatever that may be)

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by Stoo
(quotes)

Not really, seeing as there are a distinct lack of pits in East Anglia.. (I came to Sheffield from Suffolk for uni..)

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Distinct lack of pits in Sheffield and yorkshire these days.

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by Red
(quotes)

I have a question, Demona. Do you have a job? Are you working out of Uni hours to pay for all your food, board, academic materials, social life, etc?

If not, who is paying for it all? (Forgive me if that seems like a rather personal question but it just occured to me that unless you are working all hours and paying for everything yourself, then you are expecting someone to pay for it, be it your parents or the state)

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The university doesn't allow students to have jobs during term-time. With exams the first two days back next term, I'm not working at the moment, I intend to in the summer.

My parents are paying for me to go to university, in addition to taking out a student loan. I didn't *expect* my parents or the state to pay for my education, but seeing as they are, I'm not going to refuse. I'd still choose to go to university if I did have to pay for it and I wouldn't resent being required to.

All of which is beside the point of my original post, but if no-one has anything to say about that...

Thanks for the explanation