It was a useless war, the only point being to raise morale throughout the nation and give the government something to build on.

They should just give the rock to whoever wants it and get rid of what is a useless relic from an age of imperialism.

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by Maff
It was a useless war, the only point being to raise morale throughout the nation and give the government something to build on.

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I'll agree that Mrs T's motivations were a bit dodgy - having been caught out so thoroughly by the invasion (and being partly responsible for the timing of it by the decision to scrap and not replace the Ice Patrol Vessel Endurance) she did rather swing to the opposite extreme and throw everything at the islands bar the kitchen sink.

But I can't agree with anything else you said there I'm afraid, Maff. I'm pretty much of an age with Sange and although I don't have her personal links, I remember it well. It was always my dream to join the Navy and I'm tremendously (and somewhat irrationally) proud of its history and traditions.

The invasion of the Falklands was as grave a breach of international law as Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. Such acts cannot be allowed to go unchallenged and, unfortunately, this was one of those occasions where a negotiated settlement just wasn't going to work.

War isn't a video game, and it isn't the legitimate plaything of politicians. It's not something to be undertaken lightly and if George W wants to hit Iraq then he won't count me as one of his supporters even if British forces are involved. But I do think the Falklands was one of those occasions where it was necessary in order to maintain the rule of international law.

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by Maff
They should just give the rock to whoever wants it and get rid of what is a useless relic from an age of imperialism.

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And when two groups of people want it..? In this case the people who live there want to remain British - that ought to count for something to you, I would have thought?

I don't remember very much about the Falklands War. I was watching Batman (the cheesy Adam West movie) on BBC1 when they interrupted the broadcast to announce that the islands had been invaded. I was 9.

I am not familiar with the politics underlying the invasion although I seem to recall the invasion was an effort to boost the flagging popularity of the Argentinian dictatorship.

Ironically, it boosted the popularity of Maggie instead.

To quote Jack, 'We live in a world with walls and we need soldiers to protect those walls'. Argentina acted with unprovoked aggression and the United Kingdom had a duty to retaliate.

That said, the single thing I most remember about the Falklands War is the ordering of the attack on the Belgrano by Margaret Thatcher.

The Belgrano was outside the exclusion zone declared by the British Government and was sailing towards Argentina, not towards the Islands as was claimed by the government at the time.

It has long been argued that this action, which led to the drowning of 323 Argentinian sailors, was specifically intended to frustrate the Peruvian peace initiative because Thatcher wanted a military victory and not a diplomatic one.

Without it, there may not have been a Falklands War to remember at all.

I was nine at the time, and remember the war quite well. I am sure I didn't have a very good grasp of the reality of war - mostly it excited me. War might not be a video game but it seemed like one - it was somewhere I'd never heard of, involving people I didn't know. The casualty statistics were just numbers to me, knowing no-one with any forces connections. I even remember being a little peversely pleased (seems so crass now) when one of the ships was sunk - the Argentinians were making a fight of it (I guess I must have absorbed some overexagerated idea of the might of the British Navy in my childhood, the idea that we wouldn't win certainly never crossed my mind).

It was only later, and especally after reading Max Hastings book on the war (highly recomended for anyone who's interested, he was there as a war correspondant), that I realised both the personal cost of the conflict (on both sides) and what a remarkable military achievement the recapture of the islands was. The Falklands are a most inhospitable environment, and British troops were operating at the end of a 9000 mile long supply line against an enemy that had had ample time to prepare defensive positions. That this was achieved was due to a combination of the excellence of the British forces, the comparative inexperience of the Argentine forces and not a little luck (one exocet hit on an aircraft carrier could have scuppered the whole expedition).

It saddens me that I think there is still a little lingering resentment among some in this country towards the Argentine people as a result of the conflict. As Inc said, the war was a quest for popularity of an unelected military regime (one that the people of Argentina seemed happy to get rid of). It is worth noting that, unlike the British troops who were all professionals and volunteers, the Argentine casualties who mainly conscripts - young men who had been called up, given a little training and despatched to this inhospitable environment where they were poorly equiped and supplied.

Now, this is just conchie moaning minnieism. I take my holidays in the Falkland Islands every year, and I am glad to be able to spend good old British pounds and not unreliable Argentinian pesos.

(Edited by Tannhauser 02/04/2002 16:56)

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by Tannhauser
Now, this is just conchie moaning minnieism.

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I don't remember much of the Falklands War. I remember the day it started and wondering when it would be over so TV could get back to normal (I was only ickle ), but it was overshadowed in my life by losing my mother two days later.

I recall the end of the war but it wasn't until I was older I actually learned the facts, and understood everything that happened.

I have been reading in the paper today (!) memories from several people directly involved and it seems those memories will never leave them.

And no, I hadn't realised what the date was

A little bit of sesquipedalian excess there I think Tann.

I remember the war. And I also remember Brian Hanrahan's most famous quote of "I counted them out. And I counted them back in again" referring to the fighter jets taking off from the aircraft carrier as they went into battle.

I don't agree with Maff over it being a pointless war. Okay, so the Falkland Islands are small and the other side of the world. But they are are British, they belong to us. Would you think it pointless if your car was stolen. Or would you want the police to make an effort to get it back for you? After all, it's only a car.

I know this example is not exactly the same. But the point I am trying to make is that Argentina invaded a part of our Commonwealth and took it by force. That is an act of war. If I had lived there, I would hope that the British Government would feel, as a British citizen, that I was worth fighting for. And, I suspect, Maff, that you would have felt the same had you been living on there at the time, no?

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by Byron
sesquipedalian

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Bless You.

I was too young to remember the Falklands war, and there was next to no teachings of it in school either.

At the time this was happening, my dad was seriously ill and died in May, so although I was aware that it was going on, it was very much in the background. Everything I know about the Falklands conflict has been learnt since, by watching documentaries and reading books**, so in a lot of ways it seems a bit like the second world war, in that it's history to me and didn't happen in my lifetime.

** On a side note, there was an excellent book written by Robert Harris and AN Other whose name escapes me, called "Don't cry for me Seargeant Major", written from the squaddies' perspective, very funny and down to earth; they followed this up with another about the British Army in Germany and I can't for the life of me remember what that was called either (can anyone say 'brain rot'?). I'd love to get my hands on either or both of these, but know they're out of print... if anyone ever comes across them, I'd pay hard cash and even hard vodka for them, and of course my eternal gratitude goes without saying... **

I’m of the belief war should be avoided whenever humanely possible. Neither, though, am I an unwavering pacifist, and accept in certain circumstances there is little other choice but to fight. I don’t believe the Falklands occupation met the criteria to justify the horrific response it elicited.

The Thatcher government procrastinated over the islands’ sovereignty with the Argentinean government for quite some time beforehand. The specialist Antarctic ship HMS Endurance was decommissioned (announced to an empty and apathetic House of Lords), which coupled with the closure of the Grytviken-survery-base on South Georgia, contributed to a perception in the Argentinean junta that the British were all but holding the door open for them. Every piece of intelligence (and there was a considerable amount) prior to the invasion was ignored back in the UK.

Over a thousand Argentinean conscripts were killed in addition to over 250 British casualties, and as documented in the programme Simon’s Heros broadcast on BBC1 tonight, close to that number of soldiers have subsequently taken their own lives. The campaign was mismanaged and flawed from start to finish; such was its improvised nature. The occupation did not pose any direct threat to Britain, nor were the islanders’ lives immediately threatened.

It’s undeniably seriously damaging if the perception a nation is an “easy target” is allowed to proliferate. But conversely, there were avenues - diplomatic, imposition of sanctions – which could have been extensively pursued before the use of military force. Surely all other options should have been entirely exhausted before Thatcher dispatched Britain’s armed forces like the 7th Cavalry?

The horrible conclusion that Margaret Thatcher’s precipitate, bellicose actions made the conflict, and appalling loss of life, virtually inevitable - given the facts – is hard to avoid.

I thought I'd add a bit of history as people seem to be mentioning that Argentina have a right to the Falkland Islands.

British sovereignty over the Falkland Islands and Dependencies rests on a secure historical and legal foundation. In 1690 the British, led by Captain Strong, made the first recorded landing on the Falkland Islands, which had no indigenous population before the arrival of settlers in the second half of the eighteenth century. The first British settlement was established in 1766. But up to 1833 there was a period of some confusion, when France, Britain, Spain and then the Buenos Aires Government at various times established small, local settlements, none of which endured for more than a few years.

Apart from having a small settlement and penal colony for a short period on the Islands before 1833 (the greater part of this was ejected for 'piracy' by the United States Navy in 1831) Argentina's claim to the Islands is based mainly on her having been a successor to the Spanish Viceroyalty of the River Plate, which also governed most of modern Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia and Chile. In 1833 the British resumed control of the Islands, and from that date they have been in open, continuous, effective and peaceful possession, occupation and administration. The British people who came to live there thereafter became the first permanently established population of the Islands.

The Falkland Islands are a United Kingdom Overseas Territory, open to any British Citizen and are an associated territory of the European Union.

Just because somewhere is the other side of the world does that mean that the 2,913 people whom the vast majority are British some how not deserve the same protection that we would expect living in the UK?

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by Maffrew
It was a useless war, the only point being to raise morale throughout the nation and give the government something to build on.

They should just give the rock to whoever wants it and get rid of what is a useless relic from an age of imperialism.

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Er yeah right, The Argentines invaded a British island. Britain went and took it back, wheres the pointlessness??

I understand that there were actually negotiations to hand back the Falklands going on shortly before Thatcher decided she needed a decisive election victory....

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by Opiumia
I understand that there were actually negotiations to hand back the Falklands going on shortly before Thatcher decided she needed a decisive election victory....

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Negotiations with Argentina have been going on for years,the latest negotiations at that time (1980) had been a party sent there to sell the "lease back" propsal which obtained mixed results and nothing in concrete.

By 1981 there was a growing feeling among the Argentine military that 1982 would be “The Year of the Malvinas”,A contingency plan was made to take the islands followed by a voluntary withdrawal (it was later changed for a permanent garrisoning of the Argentine troops). This plan was made just in case the new round of negotiations with England, scheduled to start in the beginning of 1982, failed. The original purpose of the invasion was to bring forward the subject to the world and force the British to start serious negotiations once and for all The tentative target date was set for mid September of 1982. The reasons were, apart from letting diplomacy a chance, that the worst of the winter would be over, H.M.S. Endurance, a British patrol vessel, would have been withdrawn under planned British naval cuts, the training of the army conscripts, who were drafted every year for the period of service, would be well advanced and the re-equipment of the Air Force with state of the art French planes with exocet missiles (which would play a vital role during the war) would be complete.

Whatever were the real causes behind this incident there was still an invasion plan being developed. If the British can be blamed for their unwillingness to compromise (and yes a war victory was going to do the government no end of good) which made them back off from previous agreements and negotiations, the Argentine military bear the guilt of conceiving a war plan to achieve their goals instead of committing further to diplomatic negotiations . Could the war have been avoided?

I just want to be called "Captain Strong".

I mean, how cool is that?

Ain't nobody messes with.......Captain Strong!

Ahem. Sorry.

LOL

Thanks for the info SS.


I am called Captain Strong... in certain situations...

(Edited by Opiumia 03/04/2002 15:11)