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Back to the ForumI don't think so. Unsure.
by Lioness
should we be cloning people?
Yes.
by Lioness
Are we playing God?
(Edited by Red 07/04/2002 11:52)
Posted: 11:51 Apr 07 2002
First Human Cloning Pregnancy
Source: dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/Science/Cloning
A woman taking part in a controversial human cloning programme is 8 weeks pregnant, Britain's New Scientist magazine reported on its Web site on Friday. It cited Italy's outspoken fertility expert Severino Antinori, one of two specialists leading the effort, as saying: "One woman among thousands of infertile couples in the programme is 8 weeks pregnant." If true, this would represent the first human cloning pregnancy.
Full article: story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=571&571&e=11&u=/nm/20020405/hl_nm/cloning_women
Just wondering what people thought about this.. should we be cloning people? Are we playing God?
A woman taking part in a controversial human cloning programme is 8 weeks pregnant, Britain's New Scientist magazine reported on its Web site on Friday. It cited Italy's outspoken fertility expert Severino Antinori, one of two specialists leading the effort, as saying: "One woman among thousands of infertile couples in the programme is 8 weeks pregnant." If true, this would represent the first human cloning pregnancy.
Full article: story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=571&571&e=11&u=/nm/20020405/hl_nm/cloning_women
Just wondering what people thought about this.. should we be cloning people? Are we playing God?
19 Replies and 4066 Views in Total.
(Edited by Red 07/04/2002 11:52)
Posted: 11:51 Apr 07 2002
this stuff is scary its not natural and things can go wrong, arghh it creeps me out.
Posted: 12:00 Apr 07 2002 
This is quite ironic as I watched 'The Sixth Day' last night.
It's a *very* thorny subject and I can see the arguments both for and against. But, I feel that cloning should only be done when it's to produce further organs, etc, *not* to clone complete human beings because then we are playing God. Although, I suppose you could say we are doing that whenever we save someone's life because of advancing scientific research.
It's a difficult one.
It's a *very* thorny subject and I can see the arguments both for and against. But, I feel that cloning should only be done when it's to produce further organs, etc, *not* to clone complete human beings because then we are playing God. Although, I suppose you could say we are doing that whenever we save someone's life because of advancing scientific research.
It's a difficult one.
Posted: 13:10 Apr 07 2002
I think I'm with Whistler on this, I can see both sides of this.
I don't feel I have the knowledge or the ability to defend either side. At the end of the day they "were" eventually going to do it.
I don't feel I have the knowledge or the ability to defend either side. At the end of the day they "were" eventually going to do it.
Posted: 13:19 Apr 07 2002 There is no God.
by Lioness Are we playing God?
Good question. To quote vaguely from Jurassic Park, "your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
by Lioness Should we be cloning people?
I have nothing wrong with cloning human beings in principle, however, nothing to date suggests we have the ability to do it safely.
Dolly and other cloned animals have exhibited congenital problems, and experienced accelerated ageing. We don't know enough about what we are doing to perform this kind of exercise safely.
The individual in question has been in the news before I think relating to fertility treatment for older women and he has a reputation as a fairly cynical self publicist.
Should the child be born, the combination of physical problems and freak show status is a particularly unappealing one. Based on what information is available, I think that this human cloning exercise is ethically suspect.
Posted: 13:22 Apr 07 2002 How do you know?
by Incandenza
(quotes)
There is no God.
(Edited by Whistler 07/04/2002 13:28)
Posted: 13:25 Apr 07 2002 Woahhhh! A choice title of a new thread me thinks!
by Whistler
(quotes)
Firstly, how do you know?
RE cloning, I see the point of manufacturing organs... but don't you think in the big picture there are enough people in the world? I don't think we should be cloning full human beings. I think thats a bad bad idea.
Posted: 13:31 Apr 07 2002 Just part ones then sis
by Desire
I don't think we should be cloning full human beings. I think thats a bad bad idea.
sorry couldn't resist
Posted: 13:55 Apr 07 2002 
Nobody knows or can prove whether there is a God or not. It's just a personal opinion!
by Whistler
(quotes)
How do you know?
As for the main subject ......
I'm in the 'see both sides of the story' camp. The only think i do know is that i feel very uneasy about the whole thing ......
Posted: 15:45 Apr 07 2002 
errr, just one thing, having twins is the equivalent of cloning, so you think that shouldn't be allowed too??
Posted: 16:12 Apr 07 2002 Joolie: that's different. That's an 'accident' of nature rather than something pre-planned and engineered by a scientist.
by Joolie
errr, just one thing, having twins is the equivalent of cloning, so you think that shouldn't be allowed too??
Bryany: I know, but the sentiment seemed to be being expressed as fact rather than opinion
(Edited by Whistler 07/04/2002 16:15)
Posted: 16:14 Apr 07 2002
Personally I think its a bad idea......
I can see that more and more people would want to create "perfect" children...... there has to be a downside somewhere
I can see that more and more people would want to create "perfect" children...... there has to be a downside somewhere
Posted: 17:14 Apr 07 2002 Completly agree there is far too many people in the world at the moment more than it can sustain(I think) so in the big picture its wrong. But the organs thing yeah sure im all for that but lets take things one step at a time, first organs and a long time down the line maybe we should do humans.
by Desire
(quotes)
RE cloning, I see the point of manufacturing organs... but don't you think in the big picture there are enough people in the world? I don't think we should be cloning full human beings. I think thats a bad bad idea.
Posted: 17:15 Apr 07 2002
OK, firstly i find the whole subject of genetics facinating. I love hearing about new findings etc etc. (It's the science brain, makes me dull like that)
However. I dont think we have the moral/ethical code in place to be doing experaments of ANY kind with genetics.
Just look at these GM trials. The produce may be intierly safe, that hasnt been satisfactorilly answered yet, but the trials have released the GM genes into the general population of plants. So, if they arent safe, too late.
Thats what i feel is going on here. Dolly and other cloned and GM animals have all raised questions about the viability of this science. these questions and fears havent been answered to my satisfaction yet and so human cloning should be a big NO (see, it's big)
Just because we can do something, doesnt mean we should.
I hope for the childs sake I'm wring and it is healthy and happy and can lead a full and productive life.
The doctor however should be hanged for playing with human life in such a frivilious way
However. I dont think we have the moral/ethical code in place to be doing experaments of ANY kind with genetics.
Just look at these GM trials. The produce may be intierly safe, that hasnt been satisfactorilly answered yet, but the trials have released the GM genes into the general population of plants. So, if they arent safe, too late.
Thats what i feel is going on here. Dolly and other cloned and GM animals have all raised questions about the viability of this science. these questions and fears havent been answered to my satisfaction yet and so human cloning should be a big NO (see, it's big
)Just because we can do something, doesnt mean we should.
I hope for the childs sake I'm wring and it is healthy and happy and can lead a full and productive life.
The doctor however should be hanged for playing with human life in such a frivilious way
Posted: 18:42 Apr 07 2002
i can see both sides of the debate..the need for organs for transplants but also the moral implications.
If cloning gets the general go ahead. there will always be people that will object.
It does give me the wiggins though, the idea of it...espcially after watching so many sci-fi films.
(Edited by Rae 07/04/2002 19:18)
If cloning gets the general go ahead. there will always be people that will object.
It does give me the wiggins though, the idea of it...espcially after watching so many sci-fi films.
(Edited by Rae 07/04/2002 19:18)
Posted: 19:09 Apr 07 2002
I have seen god. Well, I've seen him play a number of roles, including Tyler Durden...
Severino Antinori, while being a renowned self-publicist, is also known to talk tosh of the highest order on a regular basis. It would seem more than likely there is nothing to his claim. The cloning of a human child is far beyond anything achieved to date. This is just more ego ballooning media attention for the man.
But to take the issue on a more general level, I have no real problems with cloning. There is much that we can use cloning for to advance medical science, especially in the stem-cell research area.
However, cloning someone as a substitute for more .. traditional .. childbirth, seems pointless. It is happening because there are people out there desperate to reproduce but are infertile, for any number of reasons. But to address this with cloning, especially considering how young the science is, and how little is known, would appear to be akin to using a hacksaw to cut your finger nails. The causes of infertility can and should be addressed, and that seems to be the way to progress, to me.
What is most worrying, to me, are the (allegedly) 5000 women who are so desperate to have a child that they could not care less what harm they could be causing the child, if successful. Seems the emphasis is on 'I want' rather than what they can provide as a parent.
Severino Antinori, while being a renowned self-publicist, is also known to talk tosh of the highest order on a regular basis. It would seem more than likely there is nothing to his claim. The cloning of a human child is far beyond anything achieved to date. This is just more ego ballooning media attention for the man.
But to take the issue on a more general level, I have no real problems with cloning. There is much that we can use cloning for to advance medical science, especially in the stem-cell research area.
However, cloning someone as a substitute for more .. traditional .. childbirth, seems pointless. It is happening because there are people out there desperate to reproduce but are infertile, for any number of reasons. But to address this with cloning, especially considering how young the science is, and how little is known, would appear to be akin to using a hacksaw to cut your finger nails. The causes of infertility can and should be addressed, and that seems to be the way to progress, to me.
What is most worrying, to me, are the (allegedly) 5000 women who are so desperate to have a child that they could not care less what harm they could be causing the child, if successful. Seems the emphasis is on 'I want' rather than what they can provide as a parent.
Posted: 00:25 Apr 08 2002
Ever since the topic of cloning came into the public consciousness, people have called it either 'playing god' or 'scientific advancement'. In my opinion, it's a little of both.
We 'play god' because, in some sense, we are all gods. We create our own little universes to our own specifications, cloning is just an extension of these efforts. We push the boundaries of science so as to achieve our god-like aims.
We want to live forever, and memories passed down from generation to generation, legacies left within our children and their children no longer seem to be enough. Now we want to re-make ourselves over and over until there is nothing new within the human race.
Humans were made (not sure about this word, but it's all I can think of at the moment) curious. Ever since we crawled out of our caves, we have been trying to make our world a 'better' place. We bend and break it until we are as comfortable as we want to be, but we (as a species, not a specific 'we') neglect to take into consideration the effects it has on the world herself.
Does she really care how 'perfect' we are? Somehow I think not.
We are not gods, however. 'God' is a construct of man. We created 'God' to give ourselves a sense of place in the grander scheme of things, to apease our confusion about where we came from and why. We made 'God' in our own image and now we want to make ourselves in an image we have found that we cannot live up to. The world we live in is based on survival of the fittest, and we have been found physically lacking, so we are making up for that with our intellect and naked ambition.
I do think that we need to be constantly questioning ourselves and the world we live in, but should we really be messing with nature and all she has given us?
Basically, I'm against cloning for cloning's sake, but I fully support cloning of human organs. There really aren't enough donors out there.
Then again, isn't saving any life just a form of 'playing god'?
(Sorry for the rant, but most of the stuff above is my personal opinion, so please don't take it personally if I offend anyone, I am just expressing an opinion for which I am actually quite passionate.)
(Edited by Taz 08/04/2002 01:10)
We 'play god' because, in some sense, we are all gods. We create our own little universes to our own specifications, cloning is just an extension of these efforts. We push the boundaries of science so as to achieve our god-like aims.
We want to live forever, and memories passed down from generation to generation, legacies left within our children and their children no longer seem to be enough. Now we want to re-make ourselves over and over until there is nothing new within the human race.
Humans were made (not sure about this word, but it's all I can think of at the moment) curious. Ever since we crawled out of our caves, we have been trying to make our world a 'better' place. We bend and break it until we are as comfortable as we want to be, but we (as a species, not a specific 'we') neglect to take into consideration the effects it has on the world herself.
Does she really care how 'perfect' we are? Somehow I think not.
We are not gods, however. 'God' is a construct of man. We created 'God' to give ourselves a sense of place in the grander scheme of things, to apease our confusion about where we came from and why. We made 'God' in our own image and now we want to make ourselves in an image we have found that we cannot live up to. The world we live in is based on survival of the fittest, and we have been found physically lacking, so we are making up for that with our intellect and naked ambition.
I do think that we need to be constantly questioning ourselves and the world we live in, but should we really be messing with nature and all she has given us?
Basically, I'm against cloning for cloning's sake, but I fully support cloning of human organs. There really aren't enough donors out there.
Then again, isn't saving any life just a form of 'playing god'?
(Sorry for the rant, but most of the stuff above is my personal opinion, so please don't take it personally if I offend anyone, I am just expressing an opinion for which I am actually quite passionate.)
(Edited by Taz 08/04/2002 01:10)
Posted: 01:05 Apr 08 2002