The Cordy/Connor spoiler is apparantly that Cordelia comes back evil, Connor kills her for being a demon.

I'm voting "nope" on that one for so many reasons.

Other one's I'm more inclined to believe:

Cordy's in most, if not all, of the season
Angel's not in the first episode
Wes slowly slides to the dark side
Fred and Wes um... y'know... nudge-nudge, wink-wink... Gunn isn't a happy bunny

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by Callum
Fred and Wes um... y'know... nudge-nudge, wink-wink... Gunn isn't a happy bunny

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Ewwwwww! But could be interesting! Not hearing anything much on the grapevine yet. Have to wait a while I guess.

There are spoilers for the first episode being reported here.

No idea if they're accurate or not, but well, could be interesting..

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by In a State of Dan
No idea if they're accurate or not, but well, could be interesting..

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Herc's generally very reliable, his sources are all pretty well informed and when he does get it wrong it's usually for a good reason.

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by Callum
Herc's generally very reliable, his sources are all pretty well informed and when he does get it wrong it's usually for a good reason.

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Ah right. I'm quite new to this whole 'reading spoilers' lark - started reading ones for 'Angel' cos I really need some reassurance that the show can recover from 'Tomorrow' - but other people did seem to be treating it pretty seriously.

All I can say is, please don't let it be Fred!!

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by In a State of Dan
(quotes)
other people did seem to be treating it pretty seriously.

All I can say is, please don't let it be Fred!!

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Though what he, or any other source, says may turn out to be true, it may well not be the whole truth - death isn't always very fatal!

More stuff from zap2it.

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'Angel's' Denisof: Fourth-Season Debut 'Just Nuts'
Wed, Jul 17, 2002 00:09 AM PDT

by Rick Porter
Zap2it.com, TV News

LOS ANGELES (Zap2it.com) - When we last saw Wesley Wyndham-Price on "Angel," he was kicking Lilah Morgan out of his apartment after a little "angry sex -- revenge sex," as the man who plays Wesley, Alexis Denisof, describes it.

This at the same time that Angel (David Boreanaz) was being sent to the ocean floor by his son, Connor (Vincent Kartheiser), and Cordelia (Charisma Carpenter) was ascending to the heavens after becoming something other than human.

And if you think that was crazy...

"The first show [of the coming season] is just nuts," Denisof says. "There are so many twists and turns, and every scene where you think you know what's going to happen, it's just like bam! You get an uppercut. ... We're really stoked for this season."

Of course, Denisof, speaking Saturday (July 13) at The WB's party for TV critics in town for the summer press tour, wouldn't reveal what those twists and turns are. He did say, however, that Wesley would continue to explore some of the less noble aspects of his personality this season.

"He's flirting with and investigating the dark side of himself," Denisof says. "He's looking at his relationships with all the people and with Angel, and he's definitely looking at his whole purpose and trying to figure out how he wants to be. There are going to be some things that really surprise the audience, that they'd never expect of Wesley."

"Angel" is going through some changes offscreen as well. The show is moving from Monday to Sunday nights at 9, and showrunner David Greenwalt will no longer be around, having moved on to ABC's midseason series "Miracles."

David Simkins, who's worked as a writer and producer on "Lois & Clark," "Charmed" and "Dark Angel," among other series, will take over showrunning duties. Denisof says he and his castmates will miss Greenwalt -- who wrote and directed last season's finale -- but believes that "the new blood is going to be good for us."

"David Greenwalt was an amazing talent ... I thought he brought a lot to the show," Denisof says. "[But] that isn't to say we won't be bigger and better this year."

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These were apparently taken from www.scifi.com

* The return of Angelus (any more orbs of Thesulah around people? )

* Eliza Dushku and Juliet Landau are being wooed into returning for some eps of season four.

* Cordelia will be back

* Vincent Kartheiser (Connor) and Andy Hallet (Lorne) will become cast regulars (I kind of guess the first one and it's about time on the second) So Lorne will be back (yay)

* Rumours abound about Fred, Gunn and Wesley

And that's all i can remember at the moment (came from the BuffyBytes site for clarification)

All sounds very interesting, but the return of Angelus??.. am i the only one distinctly underwhelmed by that idea??.. I loved him evil in Season 2 Buffy, but now??.. I'm sincerely hoping that that is just a rumour

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by Keenangel
All sounds very interesting, but the return of Angelus??.. am i the only one distinctly underwhelmed by that idea??.. I loved him evil in Season 2 Buffy, but now??.. I'm sincerely hoping that that is just a rumour

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Could be a good way to end Angel once and for all. Connor comes round to loving Angel as his father. Angel becomes Angelsus (i sincerely hope not by getting his rocks off with Cordy) and Connor has to dust him. Still - that ain't gonna happen coz there's still tonnes of milage in Angel yet

If Angelus does come back, I hope the first thing he does is torture his bratling non-character of a son to death

What?!?!? I'm a MonSTeR I'm supposed to be evil

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by MonSTeR

If Angelus does come back, I hope the first thing he does is torture his bratling non-character of a son to death

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Ooo I'm afraid I have to agree with you there and I'm not even that evil!

Ditto to the hoping Angelus will kill Connor...

On a whole i don't think Angelus would work...he was great in BtVS s2 but is there much they could do that hasn't been done with him already? Reactions to him, consquences and no crossovers would make it difficult. Spell of restoration..who could do it?
It could be flashbacks? Or what about having Angelus and Angel in at the same time? That would change the situation a bit. Different perspectives an' all.

by regulars do you think they mean cast members or guest stars?

(Edited by Rae 24/07/2002 18:04)

I think we saw a lot of what Angelus is/was capable of in Buffy Season 2, i can't see how it would work in relation to Connor (who, for the record, i like). And the "a regular dies" always appears in the spoilers before every season.. and apart from Tara in Buffy last season, no one has died.. in Angel anyway since Doyle.. so you know what?.. i think it's a big ole red herring that Joss & co like to chuck at us to keep us guessing.. this has been the first ever Angel season finale cliffhanger remember

I'm very interested in the whole Connor/Angel story.. Connor is an angry misguided, confused brainwashed teen.. he's been used and manipulated by just about everyone.. apart from the time Angel didn't tell him he was going to see Holtz (to his detriment), he's the only one that's been any kind of honest with him). Angel wants a connection with his son, and despite what happened to him in the season finale, i don't think Angel would/will kill him.. his only chance at being a father?.. i don't think so. Anyway, that's my sixpence worth.

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by Keenangel

All sounds very interesting, but the return of Angelus??.. am i the only one distinctly underwhelmed by that idea??.. I loved him evil in Season 2 Buffy, but now??.. I'm sincerely hoping that that is just a rumour

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Well it is kind of, been there done that.

Still, for leather pants, i'd forgive a lot

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by Keenangel
I think we saw a lot of what Angelus is/was capable of in Buffy Season 2, i can't see how it would work in relation to Connor

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Well i dont think we did see everything. it was a kiddies show back then and for the "scourge of Europe" i didnt think he was very scary. I know they implied a lot but we hardly sw any nastyness other than a growl or 2. OK, so he killed Miss Callender, but it was quite a painless way to go. quick, easy, not the style we had been told was Angelus.

Incedentally, i think it was a rumour for the end of season 2, thay said that Angel would shanshu but the demon would still exist, IE, human Angel and vamore Angelus in the same show.

now if that ever happened it would be cool. kind of freaky to watch someone fight with themselves but very intresting.

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by Cat
Incedentally, i think it was a rumour for the end of season 2, thay said that Angel would shanshu but the demon would still exist, IE, human Angel and vamore Angelus in the same show.

now if that ever happened it would be cool. kind of freaky to watch someone fight with themselves but very intresting.

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WoW! I never heard that rumour at the time. How cool would that be? Make a pretty good Big Bad. But presumabley that would mean that Angelus wasn't a part of Angel anymore and he could go on without having to worry about his soul much

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by Cat

Well i dont think we did see everything. it was a kiddies show back then and for the "scourge of Europe" i didnt think he was very scary. I know they implied a lot but we hardly sw any nastyness other than a growl or 2. OK, so he killed Miss Callender, but it was quite a painless way to go. quick, easy, not the style we had been told was Angelus.

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I have to say I don't actually think that killing Miss Calender was really to do with him being evil, she was just killed to stop her returning his soul almost as a bonus.

The REAL "fun" Angelus had as a result of Jenny's death, the true evil of the demon was that her death was inconsequential, it was just something that he could use to torment his real victims, Giles and especially Buffy, which is why he was watching for her reaction as she recieved the phone call.

Apparently the ropes that are holding Angels water coffin will snap and he will escapre.
And I also heard that most of the first episodes are going to be Angels hallucinations... so you think it's real but really it isnt.

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by coolkat
Apparently the ropes that are holding Angels water coffin will snap and he will escapre.
And I also heard that most of the first episodes are going to be Angels hallucinations... so you think it's real but really it isnt.

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Urrgh that sucks. Steel cables just snap. mmmmmmmmmmmkay. and i really hate the 'it was only a dream/vision/whatever' storylines in anything. its just lame and shows huge gutlessness on the parts of the writers that they daren't do the stuff without a get out clause

Well, i'm not exactly a physicist, but watching that season finale, that box went a heck of a long way down before it hit the ocean floor.. and over a period of two or three months of it being down there, surely the immense water pressure would buckle the metal?.. therefore eventually causing any cables to snap?. I'm sure someone will enlighten me.

I've heard some pretty interesting rumours regarding Angel on the WB boards.

Wesley and Lilah get more involved.

Something about the curse.. i'm not sure exactly, but the consensus seems to be Angel getting jiggy with Cordelia without breaking the curse.

Something about Cordelia being "thrown out of heaven" minus "some things".. not her mind or her memories or anything like that.

Connor having a "mild" love interest (make of that what you will)

And that's all i can think of off the top of my head