I think the next season for the Sopranos will be its last. As a resident of New Jersey, and someone who finds nothing entertaining about mobsters, the end can't come fast enough for me. I know the show is well done. I admit that. But I just can't get past the fact that this character, who a lot of people actually find sympathetic, is a cold-blooded killer. I just hope Tony Soprano and his whole lot of goons get their just deserts in the final episode.

Shouldn't this be in the spoiler forum? Ah well..

I've always had mixed feelings about the show. While I've watched it since the beginning (although I missed some episodes at the end of season 2 due to, well, lack of interest) I find that, with some notable exceptions, it's nowhere near as good as it and the critics think it is. That the writing, production and acting are all top-notch is beyond doubt, but it just doesn't involve me in the way my favourite TV does.

There are some pretty obvious reasons for that, as the season 5 opener quickly reminded me. There's no getting around it - Tony Soprano is not a likeable man, nor is he a sympathetic character. While this isn't necessarily barrier to great drama, and not a problem for a film or a play, for a long-running TV show I think it is. Particularly when, after all the therapy, everything we've seen him go through in the past 4 seasons, he doesn't seem to have changed at all. The key scene in this episode is when he asks Dr Melfi to describe what it is about him that she dislikes. He knows what the answer's going to be, he knows he's not going to like it, and yet his reaction simply confirms that everything she just said is absolutely true. Realistic it might be, a reminder of just how loathsome he really is, definitely; a fresh insight into the character it's absolutely not.

In general, despite plenty of stuff going on, there's a bizarrely static feeling about the whole show. Christopher and Paulies continued antagonism is incredibly dull, and is it even possible to spot a difference in Tony and Carmelas relationship post-divorce? Maybe I'll be proved wrong, but it all felt a little tired to me...

The Sopranos can be divided fairly easily into season one (exceptional) and everything else (merely very good). David Chase spent a decade polishing his first series and it showed; it's proved a millstone about The Sopranos' neck since it aired. No subsequent season has matched the character development and dynamics of that standout first year, but I'd disagree that they're merely going through the motions. Tony's lack of personal development could be seen as a sign of weak writing, but I prefer to look at it as a refreshingly cynical observation that some people just can't be changed.

Which isn't the most earth shattering observation ever, but the sheer quality of the material makes even Sopranos by rote endlessly enjoyable. The vicious vein of black humour running through the series as unrepentantly as a stream of magma is a constant guilty pleasure: Christopher's "group therapy" session from the generally weak season four was the funniest thing I saw all year, and their response to a fitting waiter in this episode gave me another guilty snigger. Do I care about the characters? Not since Big Pussy bit the talking trout, no, but I don't see sympathy as a prerequisite to enjoyment.

Season five looks to have remedied the meandering arc plot from last season by throwing a group of geriatric mobsters into the mix in the first episode. Fossilised Mafioso, unlike good wine, do not improve with age, and I see an explosive year ahead. It won't be up to the Shakespearian season one, but it should be great viewing.

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by Sandia
I think the next season for the Sopranos will be its last. As a resident of New Jersey, and someone who finds nothing entertaining about mobsters, the end can't come fast enough for me. I know the show is well done. I admit that. But I just can't get past the fact that this character, who a lot of people actually find sympathetic, is a cold-blooded killer. I just hope Tony Soprano and his whole lot of goons get their just deserts in the final episode.

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Sympathy doesn't equal approval. David Chase has never glossed over the dirty underbelly of Tony's life: his second battle with HBO (the first was avoiding the title Family Guy!) was to show Tony commit murder on-screen in early episode "College". Any approval of Tony and his actions says more about the audience than the show. The Sopranos doesn't promote the Mob any more than Macbeth promotes supernatural regicide.

I sympathise that it's not the best tourist advert New Jersey's ever had, but hey, least you don't live in Essex!

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by Byron
(quotes)
Sympathy doesn't equal approval. David Chase has never glossed over the dirty underbelly of Tony's life: his second battle with HBO (the first was avoiding the title Family Guy!) was to show Tony commit murder on-screen in early episode "College". Any approval of Tony and his actions says more about the audience than the show. The Sopranos doesn't promote the Mob any more than Macbeth promotes supernatural regicide.

I sympathise that it's not the best tourist advert New Jersey's ever had, but hey, least you don't live in Essex!

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I agree that any approval of Tony Soprano probably says more about the audience than about the show. But I hear a lot of people talk about the Sopranos here, and it seems that a lot of them actually like the guy, or they like Carmela or some one or other of the "family."

Part of the problem might be my location in New Jersey, where folks like this exist and lots of people know someone or another who's "connected." I don't want to exaggerate it. It's not like every other person is a mobster. Not even close. But there are Tony Sopranos around these parts, and some people admire them. I'm just uncomfortable with a TV series helps give these folks a more benign image. It's easy to slip into finding something to like about a family that's in your home every week, whose problems you become involved with. I see a lot of people getting sucked in to sympathizing with and even liking some of these people. Maybe it's just me, but it does bother me.

As for good tourist adverts for New Jersey, there's no possibility of that ever happening in your lifetime or mine. Of all the 50 states, New Jersey is the one that's the biggest national joke. The state has its beautiful areas, but it also has some pretty ugly parts. Just look at the opening sequence of the Sopranos. Oil refineries and chemical plants leave a stench in the air in a wide swath across the state. There's the Jersey accent, which everyone seems to find so funny. People here also tend to be rather aggressive and in-your-face in a way that amazes people from other parts of the country, where being polite is considered normal behavior. No, not a lot of folks are planning their vacations here--if they're smart.

I'm not sure about the Essex joke. An undesirable part of England, I take it? Strangely enough, we have Essex County here in New Jesey, and a lot of Tony Soprano's haunts are in it.

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by Byron
I prefer to look at it as a refreshingly cynical observation that some people just can't be changed.

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Oh, I agree that that's entirely the point, I just don't think it makes for good TV. I'm not saying I want to see Tony Soprano learn the error of his ways or become a nice guy, but an occasional indication that this clearly intelligent man is capable of learning from his mistakes (it doesn't seem like he's even figured out why Carmela wanted a divorce yet..) would, I think, make it a little more interesting not to mention palatable.

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I don't see sympathy as a prerequisite to enjoyment.

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Clearly not. What it does mean, as I said, is that while I find the show perfectly watchable, I don't find it compelling - for me it's the 3rd best show on HBO, which admittedly still makes it better than the vast majority of TV out there. I'm just trying to articulate why that's the case with The Sopranos but not with, say, Goodfellas or Macbeth.

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Season five looks to have remedied the meandering arc plot from last season by throwing a group of geriatric mobsters into the mix in the first episode.

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And, of course, Steve Buscemi.

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by Sandia
[b]I'm not sure about the Essex joke. An undesirable part of England, I take it? Strangely enough, we have Essex County here in New Jesey, and a lot of Tony Soprano's haunts are in it.

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Why do Essex girls wash their hair in the kitchen sink? Because that's where you're supposed to wash vegetables.

Let's just say the only refinement you'll find in my fair county is the sort the public health people require.

Actually met a guy from New Jersey last year, and he was the perfect gentleman (compared to gubbins here that isn't hard mind). So wasn't aware of the State's rep ... thanks (I guess) for enlightening me!

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by In a State of Dan
Oh, I agree that that's entirely the point, I just don't think it makes for good TV. I'm not saying I want to see Tony Soprano learn the error of his ways or become a nice guy, but an occasional indication that this clearly intelligent man is capable of learning from his mistakes (it doesn't seem like he's even figured out why Carmela wanted a divorce yet..) would, I think, make it a little more interesting not to mention palatable.

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Tony *has* learnt from his mistakes, for example forming an uneasy alliance with Junior and calling off the hit on the New York boss last season. (Which made for a total anti-climax, but an interesting one.) Granted he has skirted close to carricature recently: Chase has spent over a year tinkering with season 5, so I have high hopes here. (Glutton for punishment me.)

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Clearly not. What it does mean, as I said, is that while I find the show perfectly watchable, I don't find it compelling - for me it's the 3rd best show on HBO, which admittedly still makes it better than the vast majority of TV out there. I'm just trying to articulate why that's the case with The Sopranos but not with, say, Goodfellas or Macbeth.

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At a stab, the other two are Six Feet Under and Curb Your Enthusiasm?

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And, of course, Steve Buscemi.

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Yeah muddy funster!

Six Feet Under and Carnivale in this house, my boy. Never really got into Curb depsite all the good things i heard.

I wasn't blown away by this first Soprano's ep, but i think i enjoyed it more than Dan - though thats always been the case, i think. I shall continue acquiring this season to see how it pans out, as its still better than the majority of things i could be watching